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Author Topic:   Topic Proposal Issues
Adminnemooseus
Administrator
Posts: 3977
Joined: 09-26-2002


Message 1 of 517 (141772)
09-12-2004 2:26 PM


AbE: This thread is for posting about issues related to topic proposals in the [forum=-25] forum. Requests that a topic proposal be reconsidered, or comments about a topic proposal currently under development, are examples of the kinds of issues that are appropriate here. --Admin
PaulK, from message 5 of the topic "The Authorship of Isaiah":
quote:
Quite frankly I am surprised this topic got approved.
Quoting myself, from message 2 of same topic:
quote:
I don't personally know what to make of this topic,
I think the various admins have sometimes (often?) been overly generous in advancing topics from the "Proposed New Topics" forum. This certainly might be the case for the topic in question. I certainly was less than enthusiastic about it, but I advanced it anyway. I guess I expected it to die a quick death, and then fade into obscurity.
I encourage further discussion of this matter.
Adminnemooseus
Edited by Admin, : Change title, add an opening comment.

Replies to this message:
 Message 2 by AdminNosy, posted 09-12-2004 3:09 PM Adminnemooseus has replied
 Message 13 by PaulK, posted 09-27-2004 10:14 AM Adminnemooseus has not replied
 Message 36 by Ben!, posted 12-11-2004 5:33 AM Adminnemooseus has not replied
 Message 62 by Ben!, posted 03-31-2005 4:15 PM Adminnemooseus has not replied
 Message 248 by Force, posted 11-28-2007 7:25 PM Adminnemooseus has not replied
 Message 269 by New Cat's Eye, posted 08-01-2008 1:59 AM Adminnemooseus has replied
 Message 403 by Butterflytyrant, posted 08-06-2011 12:35 PM Adminnemooseus has replied

  
Adminnemooseus
Administrator
Posts: 3977
Joined: 09-26-2002


Message 3 of 517 (141949)
09-13-2004 1:41 AM
Reply to: Message 2 by AdminNosy
09-12-2004 3:09 PM


Re: Guidelines
I think we need to start letting some PNT topics sit a while, if we don't feel good about them. Don't feel obligated to try to forward most everthing that is proposed.
As such, I shouldn't have promoted the topic cited in message 1.
We can always carry on a discussion on the merits of the topic. If the topic ultimately is promoted, it can be done as just a single message, without the topic evalution discussion (which in the case of the cited, I had decided to leave in the released form).
More comments from any member welcome.
Adminnemooseus
Added by edit - There have been some "Coffee House" topics processed through the "Proposed New Topics". My original (and current) vision of the PNT process is that most all topics go through the process, including those destined for the "Coffee House" and "Free For All".
This message has been edited by Adminnemooseus, 09-13-2004 12:47 AM

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2 by AdminNosy, posted 09-12-2004 3:09 PM AdminNosy has replied

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Adminnemooseus
Administrator
Posts: 3977
Joined: 09-26-2002


Message 17 of 517 (146822)
10-02-2004 6:31 PM
Reply to: Message 11 by Ooook!
09-27-2004 10:07 AM


quote:
and then kill a topic early if it looks like it's disintegrating.
Some topics are disintegrating part way through message 1. Once the topic gets going, it's hard to kill it without someone being upset about it.
The primary purpose of the PNT process is to get an opening message and topic title that clearly defines the theme of the topic. To at least get the topic off to a good start. Hopefully this would help the quality of the topic as it progressed, and also help moderation efforts. I just wish that the general membership put more effort into keeping in touch with the topic theme. It's tough at best, for the admins to control topic drift, if the membership won't contribute self-moderation.
Perhaps it would be a good thing, if the topic originator had the power to close the topic. The topic could always be reopened.
The topic message volume is such that a topic could run amuck for a long time before an admin can catch up on it. I know that there are quite a few topics that I give no attention to at all. Every once in a while I get a burst of gung-ho, and start closing topics gone bad. That's why you see me closing several topics within minutes of each other.
A good topic going bad is bad enough. A bad topic going good is even worse. I really hate to see post of the month caliber messages being buried in bad topics, and/or being in topics where they are off-theme.
I've closed topics, including ones in the Free For All forum, because I saw that good discussion was happening in a bad place.
Well, crappy organization, but there are my thoughts of the moment.
Adminnemooseus

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Adminnemooseus
Administrator
Posts: 3977
Joined: 09-26-2002


Message 19 of 517 (148138)
10-07-2004 3:00 PM
Reply to: Message 18 by coffee_addict
10-07-2004 2:50 PM


Trying to catch up on the PNT backlog.
Going to rename the topic in question (to "God created the universe at some time before the Big Bang"), and then release it. Stand by.
AM
ps: Patience weedhopper - The topic won't spoil if left in the PNT too long.

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Adminnemooseus
Administrator
Posts: 3977
Joined: 09-26-2002


Message 24 of 517 (158976)
11-13-2004 12:05 AM
Reply to: Message 23 by kendemyer
11-12-2004 9:38 PM


Re: Birth of the "Proposed New Topics" concept
The discussion and roots of the "Proposed New Topics" forum can be found in the Dealing with waste of time threads and their posters... topic.
After reading that, you can procede to Structure changes, most forums closed to the starting of new topics (4/13 - No longer pending).
The origin of the "PNT" forum was carefully considered.
Other forums do things differently. I believe the Baptist Board passes EVERY message through review before it is posted. I believe the admins there also do heavy editing before the message appears, if it appears at all. Such is an extreme example of one way of doing things.
As opposed to some other forums, here at messages are not edited for content by the admins, nor are topics or messages deleted. Exceptions to this standard are extremely rare, and almost always are actions taken against spammers (porn sites, selling products, etc.)
The bottom line: The "PNT" was initiated to try to assure that that topics got off at least to a good start. This means a reasonably good opening message and meaningful topic title. Also new topics that are not redundant to existing topics, especially active ones.
The system, of course, is not perfect. Sometimes quality proposed topics have delayed releases, and sometimes less than quality opening messages and/or topic titles get prematurely promoted.
I think all the admins agree it is a worthy system, and most of the members also do, or at least find it bearable.
Adminnemooseus
ps added by edit: There was also considerable discussion of the "PNT" system, in the "Private Admin Forum".
This message has been edited by Adminnemooseus, 11-13-2004 12:13 AM

This message is a reply to:
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Adminnemooseus
Administrator
Posts: 3977
Joined: 09-26-2002


Message 26 of 517 (159116)
11-13-2004 4:12 PM
Reply to: Message 25 by kendemyer
11-13-2004 1:31 PM


Re: TO: Admin"Moose"
The following are general comments, not directed soecificly at this topic:
1) USE THE REPLY BUTTON AT THE BOTTOM OF THE MESSAGE YOU ARE REPLYING TO.
2) Quit you whining and debate the themes of the topic. Write material pertinent to the theme of the topic, and not other side comments.
You are very close to a suspension.
Your situation reminds me of a "Far Side" cartoon:
A group of lab technicians are looking through a one-way window at a group of goofy people. One of the technicians says "Of course they're fools. The question is, what kind of fools are they?"
Adminnemooseus

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Adminnemooseus
Administrator
Posts: 3977
Joined: 09-26-2002


Message 27 of 517 (159964)
11-15-2004 10:11 PM


Rejecting beat to death topics?
Irreducably Complex in the "Proposed New Topics" forum.
Feedback from "the peanut gallery"?
Adminnemooseus

Replies to this message:
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Adminnemooseus
Administrator
Posts: 3977
Joined: 09-26-2002


Message 51 of 517 (190502)
03-07-2005 3:34 PM


Radioactive Noah shining bluish in the darkness like smurfs
I've closed the Radioactive Noah shining bluish in the darkness like smurfs topic. My topic closing message is message 3.
There has also been some discussion of this matter at the Thread Reopen Requests topic, where I said:
I closed the topic because:
1) It bypassed the "Proposed New Topics" procedure, being a "Dates and Dating" type topic in the "Coffee House" forum.
2) I had doubts that it made standards to being promoted, even if it had been submitted to the "PNT" forum.
I didn't think it fair, to those who submit their topics to the "PNT", to let this topic get away with "the dodge".
I think this topic is the preferred place to discuss the matter - Further comments welcome.
Adminnemooseus

Replies to this message:
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Adminnemooseus
Administrator
Posts: 3977
Joined: 09-26-2002


Message 53 of 517 (191716)
03-15-2005 2:22 PM


Bump - Review this topic time? - And other comments
I think that it might be a good thing, for members to review this entire topic, from beginning to end.
My question of the moment is:
How are members guided to the "Proposed New Topics" "New Topic" button? I'm assuming that the "New Topic" buttons at the main area forums (ie "Big Bang and Cosmology") flat out do not function for non-admin members, although admins could start new topics directly in such forums, without going through the "PNT"
My vision of the ideal, would be that a member could click on the "New Topic" button at the (ie) "BBaC" forum, and thus get a "PNT" new topic page. Maybe it does work this way, but my admin status prevents me from seeing such.
Admin/Percy - Comments?
Adminnemooseus
This message has been edited by Adminnemooseus, 03-15-2005 02:30 PM

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Adminnemooseus
Administrator
Posts: 3977
Joined: 09-26-2002


Message 57 of 517 (193924)
03-24-2005 4:34 AM
Reply to: Message 56 by Wounded King
03-24-2005 4:21 AM


Re: arbitrary promotion
...why did his get the chance for elaboration and therefore becoming what Adminnemooseus terms 'better developed'?
I think it was purely because AdminNosy (I think it was) happened to notice his, and not notice yours. Yours, being first, was further down the list.
Couldn't you at least have merged the topics and put the content of my post into the thread? Is the primary literature so unimportant that it can be completely ignored?
I figured that you could just add your content to the promoted topic, as a new message. Just like you did.
Adminnemooseus

This message is a reply to:
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Adminnemooseus
Administrator
Posts: 3977
Joined: 09-26-2002


Message 65 of 517 (197401)
04-07-2005 7:12 AM


Notice concerning backlog of unprocessed "Proposed New Topics"
I've just reviewed a bunch of yet unclosed "Proposed New Topics".
AdminPhat has just promoted one of them.
I rejected and closed one, and tentitively rejected a second (both with a bump).
Pretty much, the rest are seriously flawed, and as is, are not promotable.
I am going to make a note to re-review these topics again soon (maybe tommorrow night). If no one bumps any of them soon, I'm probably going to edit in rejection comments and close most to all of those PNT's (without a bump).
I may try to index my actions in this topic.
All are here warned of such impending action.
Adminnemooseus
ps: Of course, any rejected PNT will still be available for un-rejection and reconsideration. No rejection is absolutely terminal.

Replies to this message:
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Adminnemooseus
Administrator
Posts: 3977
Joined: 09-26-2002


Message 79 of 517 (202511)
04-26-2005 4:11 AM
Reply to: Message 78 by Syamsu
04-26-2005 3:06 AM


Re: "Artificial intelligence, the decision way" "Proposed New Topic"
The topic in question apparently is Artificial intelligence, the decision way.
This topic had been rejected and closed.
That message 3 is mumbo-jumbo to me. I feel no urge to reconsider its rejection. If one of the other admins feel otherwise, they can reopen it, for futher consideration.
Adminnemooseus

This message is a reply to:
 Message 78 by Syamsu, posted 04-26-2005 3:06 AM Syamsu has replied

Replies to this message:
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Adminnemooseus
Administrator
Posts: 3977
Joined: 09-26-2002


Message 82 of 517 (202900)
04-27-2005 2:23 AM
Reply to: Message 81 by Ben!
04-27-2005 1:45 AM


Re: "Artificial intelligence, the decision way" "Proposed New Topic"
Ben, you still have active admin status (actually "Director" status). If you would like to reopen the PNT in question, and try to turn it into something that can be released, go for it.
For whatever reason (and it could well be a personal intellectual deficiency), the topic is outside of my comprehension.
Adminnemooseus

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Adminnemooseus
Administrator
Posts: 3977
Joined: 09-26-2002


Message 90 of 517 (208424)
05-15-2005 5:06 PM


For the record - Adminnemooseus blotch job at a "Proposed New Topic"
Please see message 4 of the "Robert Gentry: Granite as a "Genesis Rock"" topic.
I prematurely promoted the topic. The PNT version should have had a "suggestion for edit" reply from me.
My "patch" to fix the situation was to do an "edit for content" in message 1. As stated in message 4 there, this is a rare exception to the rule that "admins do not edit the content of the messages of others".
Adminnemooseus

  
Adminnemooseus
Administrator
Posts: 3977
Joined: 09-26-2002


Message 109 of 517 (255263)
10-28-2005 3:18 AM


Considerations of the "Soul ?" Proposed New Topic (PNT)
http://EvC Forum: Soul ? -->EvC Forum: Soul ?
The opening message is quite long, and AdminPhat has put it on hold for that reason.
While it has been standard procedure to try to keep the topic opening messages concise (and I don't fault AP's action), there have been exceptions to that "rule". I think that this topic maybe should be one of those exceptions. While it is too late and I am too fuzzy headed to really study the (long) thing, it offhand does seem to be well written, and I generally have a good "gut feeling" about it.
Comments?
Adminnemooseus

Replies to this message:
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