Trilobites, Mountains and Marine Deposits - Evidence of a flood?

Sorry I do not see the Flood as involving miracles beyond the few stated in the text -- the bringing of the animals and the closing of the door to the ark. Nothing else is treated as a miracle, it is all described in terms of physical events with causes and effects, so I have no option other than to treat them as such physical events.Water covering the earth would be a physical event, right? You all are going to deny it no matter how creationists try to defend it. If we try to show physical evidence for it you all call it a miracle anyway; so if we called it a miracle you'd just dismiss us completely.But again, even if it was a miracle there would be physical evidence for it and really that's all I've been arguing anyway. The strata and the fossils are THE indisputable evidence, along with showing the absolute absurdity of the contrary interpretation. The case has been made and all I've seen from the opposition is denials and changing the subject.The idea that you or anyone else knows whether the rapid deposition of the Flood is possible is really ridiculous. You can't see into the past either and your guesses are no better than mine. I did find a site a while back, a science site, not a creationist site, that said they'd recalculated the timing of continental drift and found out it could have been much faster than is currently thought. I don't know if I could find it again, I ran across it while looking for something else. So there's an example of how scientific dogma can change, and since this dogma is about the prehistoric past which can't be proved but only speculated about, we can put your speculations on the list of Wild Guesses.

And yet everything you have written has been seen and known to be complete and utter nonsense, the ramblings of a person utterly ignorant of even the most basic processes involved.We know quite well how flood waters work. We know quite well how those flood waters will sort things out. We know quite well that that there is only one possible explanation that can explain the order in which fossils are sorted in the geological column, not to mention the order in which radiometric isotopes are also sorted.We can explain all that quite simply. You have absolutely no explanation.All that you can ever demonstrate is that you have no explanation and that your gods are pure bullshit. Why do you insist on disproving your gods in such a manner?

Nope. The material settle to form one single 'layer' grading from the coursest and heaviest material at the bottom to the smallest and lighter material at the top. Separate layers don't form at all. Nope.

Strata and Fossils.

This one was funny. I sure can. Every time I look at the sun I can see what happend there around 8 minutes ago...Eight minutes ago counts as the past, right?

Sorted by magic by gods that want to deceive people.Because if they wanted to provide evidence of a fantastic flying flood fantasy they wouldn't sort radioactive isotopes in matching layers with species of trilobites (or foraminifera or diatoms).It has to be god-magic because water doesn't have a brain or means to sense things. Nor does it get suddenly endowed with such powers during a flood except by god-magic.Pick up whole layers of living fully developed marine ecosystems, transport them undamaged hundreds of miles to pile them up where a mountain will be pushed up by flood water ... it's all god-magic.How silly to think that the deposits occur over long periods of time with the radioactive isotopes being deposited gradually year after year after year, as the evolving foraminifera and the evolving diatoms die and their shells deposit on the ocean floor year after year after year, as the evolving trilobites lived and died on the ocean floor year after year after year.Curious how that so thoroughly explains the sorting of the radioactive isotopes and the sorting of different evolved species of foraminifera, diatoms, trilobites, etc, into matching layers worldwide. Without effort. Without god-magic. Without changing the laws of physics or the behavior of water. without having to make stuff up.Why would anyone think such a silly thing when it is much more rational to make up wild scenarios, that keep getting wilder the more things are brought up that need to be explained by the god-magic while pretending that it is scientific.How silly.EnjoyEdited by RAZD, : .

Water does not sort things in the manner we see in the fossil record. It sorts similar things together. But we do not see similar things together in the fossil record.The point about radioactive isotopes is that there is an obvious pattern in how they appear in rocks. Oversimplifying a bit, the amount of radioactive isotopes decreases with depth and the amount of their daughter isotopes increases with depth. No matter how you interpret that pattern, the pattern objectively exists and demands explanation."I don't know about that" is not an explanation; it's an admission of the failure of your "theory".Edited by JonF, : No reason given.

• You neglected to explain why the evidence supports your claims and not ours. Your "explanations" have consisted solely of unsupported assertions.
• We've addressed it in great detail over and over again, and you have ignored our presentations.

I.e. you are explicitly invoking miracles.

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Water does not sort things in the manner we see in the fossil record. It sorts similar things together. But we do not see similar things together in the fossil record.

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Exactly. It's kind of strange that trilobites are not only sorted exclusively into the Paleozoic, but that olenellus sp. Is always at the bottom.For such turbulent transport up from the bottom of the ocean, after "stirring" by the fountains of the deep, to not mix them up with their Permian "cousins" is beyond belief.

If we were to show you layers that were not flat or straight would this disprove a recent global flood?

This is a good point that hasn't entered the discussion previously. Turbidites form what are known as Bouma sequences. They consist of individual 'fining upward' beds showing continuous grading of sedimentary grains in the upward direction. The point is that these are individual density flows showing distinct points in time and reflect the passage of time with continued events.Turbidite - WikipediaHere is an image of an ideal turbidite. Notice that the base is almost perfectly flat and usually consists of deep sea organic mud onto which the turbidite layer is deposited. Edited by edge, : No reason given.

My scenario is that repeated uplifts of rocks into highlands (proto-mountains) are the weathered and eroded to produce the sediments. A repeated process spread over a great amount of time. And there is evidence for such, including the remaining cores of the mountains (eg. We have areas in northern Minnesota that have metamorphic rocks that were once buried (IIRC) something along the lines of 20 Km. 20 Km of material was weathered and eroded off. By the way, those rocks are radiometricly dated at at least 2.3 billion years old, so there has been lots of time for that weathering and erosion.You seem to be invoking very fast "catastrophic weathering" of the rocks, to produce your sediment supply. Aka, a miracle.Moose

After I posted my last message last night, it occurred to me that vast areas of repeated Bouma sequences might be the expected result of Faith's (very iffy) stirring up of ocean basin sediments / slopping the water and sediment onto the continents scenario.Instead of what widely varying sedimentary rocks that we have, we would have vast areas and volumes of rocks looking like this: Source of photoMoose

How is the expected result of worldwide rain for forty days and nights a miracle? A few days of heavy local rain can produce catastrophic mudflows, therefore worldwide rain for over a month should be expected to produce some pretty "catastrophic weathering" in pretty short order. But why "rocks?" I'm supposing mostly fertile soils and packed sediments supporting lush vegetation in the pre-Flood world, all fairly easily subject to erosion by such a downpour of rain.
"Edited by Faith, : No reason given.Edited by Faith, : No reason given.