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Author Topic:   Creationist Friendly Q&A
Loudmouth
Inactive Member


Message 1 of 25 (189811)
03-03-2005 2:45 PM


I know that there are quite a few creationist lurkers here at this site, as well as evolutionist lurkers. I see a lot of first time posters relating their reluctance to ask questions because they feel intimidated. Along with this we see a lot of creationists who do not understand how the theory of evolution works or what the theory says.
I think we can kill two birds with one stone. I am proposing that this thread be available for people of all stripes, but mainly creationists, to ask questions about science. Experts in each field will answer the questions as best they can without ridicule and without debate. I don't want this to be a debate thread but rather a place where people will not feel intimidated when they ask a question. As an example, posters can ask questions such as "if man evolved from monkeys, why are there still monkeys?" and get a response that is fair minded and accurate.
Perhaps we can also have a sister thread where agnostics/atheists can ask religious questions that can be answered by theists in the same spirit as the science Q&A. I think this would be helpful to everyone and help get more people involved.

Replies to this message:
 Message 3 by joshua221, posted 03-03-2005 5:53 PM Loudmouth has not replied
 Message 19 by Monk, posted 03-04-2005 6:55 PM Loudmouth has not replied

Loudmouth
Inactive Member


Message 11 of 25 (190046)
03-04-2005 12:23 PM


Be a good example
Since I started this thread I thought I would step in as a pseudo-moderator. I am not a moderator, so don't take my suggestions as gospel. I was hoping that answers to questions would be without rhetoric or vitriol. Examples of less than satisfactory answers are the following (and I am not picking on anyone, just healthy criticism):
bob gray:
I’ll take a stab at this one.
a) We did not evolve from monkeys.
b) If you are a descendant of your mother why is she still alive?
Your heart was in the right place, but I was thinking that we should not answer questions with questions (as in answer b). It might have been better to say that monkeys are our cousins, not our grandparents. This one needs a little more meat, but a very nice start.
mikehager:
Prophex, researchers working in the field of evolution have never claimed that we are descended from monkeys, especially if the term is taken to mean modern monkeys. That is a caricature of evolutionary science crafted by it's creationist opponents.
We and monkeys are descended from a common ancestor that was neither modern man nor modern monkey.
Remove the phrase "That is a caricature . . . creationist opponents" and this one works fine. Again, we (or better, I) want this thread to be as unintimidating as possible (ie free of rhetoric).
Resurrected Hector:
"If god created man from dirt, why are there still dirt around?"
This post is wholly inappropriate for this thread. Again, no rhetoric, sarcasm, vitriol, etc. I would prefer this thread to be unintimidating in order to give our reluctant lukers a place to ask questions that are bugging them.
I would have answered the question as such (very similar top mikehager's post):
Firstly, humans are actually primates, just as monkeys and apes are. To say that monkeys should not be around is saying that humans should not be around either.
Secondly, the relationship between species is much like that found in your own family. Apes, monkeys, and humans (ie all primates) share a common ancestor just as you and your cousins share a common ancestor, your grandparents. Some primates species will be more distantly related than others, just as you have cousins that are more distantly related than others.
Thirdly, evolution does not follow a ladder like progression. Instead, the pattern of evolution looks like a bush. Every individual of one species does not become another species over time. Instead, a sub-group of a species branches off from the larger population to become a new species. It would be expected that at some point the parent species and the daughter species would be in existence at the same time. This usually does not occur for long periods of time, but it does occur for longer time periods on occasion.
I hope the description above helps everyone understand the attitude I was shooting for.

Replies to this message:
 Message 12 by NosyNed, posted 03-04-2005 2:26 PM Loudmouth has replied

Loudmouth
Inactive Member


Message 13 of 25 (190086)
03-04-2005 4:20 PM
Reply to: Message 12 by NosyNed
03-04-2005 2:26 PM


Re: Be a good example
CAVEAT: I am not a moderator, so don't take anything I say as law on EvC.
quote:
If someone is going to have any hope of getting out of the dark hole of ignornance that the literalists view is based on they need to be able to break free from sources which are lying to them. They need to see how very silly the things which they are being fed are.
Eventually, yes they are going to have to do that. However, the whole process has to start slowly. Much like the groundhog seeing his shadow, if creationists get their head bit off the first time they ask a question about evolution are they going to be more or less likely to continue to investigate evolution? I think there should be one thread where questions are answered in a calm, logical, and plainly spoken fashion. That is why I titled the thread "Creationist Friendly Q&A". I was hoping that this thread could be a place for lurkers to ask questions they may feel too intimidated to ask in other threads. That is my hope, but reality may prove to be different. We'll see.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 12 by NosyNed, posted 03-04-2005 2:26 PM NosyNed has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 14 by coffee_addict, posted 03-04-2005 5:42 PM Loudmouth has replied
 Message 22 by PecosGeorge, posted 03-05-2005 9:33 AM Loudmouth has not replied

Loudmouth
Inactive Member


Message 17 of 25 (190108)
03-04-2005 6:30 PM
Reply to: Message 14 by coffee_addict
03-04-2005 5:42 PM


Re: Be a good example
quote:
I think a technical answer would be a lot more intimidating than the one I gave.
It is hard for me to pull back and look at the ToE with fresh eyes. That makes it hard to explain the ToE to lay people. On that we can agree.
The quip you gave puts the creationist on the defensive right away. Instead of getting an answer they are suddenly made to look foolish and may feel they need to defend themselves. I was hoping for more of a textbook answer than a Socratic discussion.
quote:
While your answer is simple and right to the point, I feel like it is simple and right to the point to someone that already has dealt with evolution before.
That's the kind of input this thread needs. How would you phrase it, within the confines of a "textbook" answer?
quote:
If someone really takes this question seriously (which by the way I've seen this question/argument a kazillion times before), you really think he is going to understand anything you wrote up there?
Honestly, yes I do. At least I hope so. I can't think of a better way of explaining it without being too vague.
When I hear the "if men no apes" question asked it is often due to a poor understanding of evolution, that the progression of species looks like a ladder instead of a branching tree. Instead of saying "we came from dirt, why is there still dirt" you could have said that we came from repitles, there are still reptiles. We came from fish, and there are still fish. We came from bacteria, and there are still bacteria. I think this type of approach might have worked better, but again, this is my opinion and I could be totally off-base.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 14 by coffee_addict, posted 03-04-2005 5:42 PM coffee_addict has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 18 by coffee_addict, posted 03-04-2005 6:52 PM Loudmouth has not replied

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