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Author Topic:   Re-enactments of the Noah's Ark voyage?
crashfrog
Member (Idle past 1467 days)
Posts: 19762
From: Silver Spring, MD
Joined: 03-20-2003


Message 181 of 204 (94820)
03-25-2004 8:26 PM
Reply to: Message 179 by mf
03-25-2004 7:31 PM


and as soon as it gets going and just randomly switches topic, you will force me to make yet another new thread.
All we have to do then is stay on topic, right? I:ll stay on topic if you do, I promise.

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 Message 179 by mf, posted 03-25-2004 7:31 PM mf has not replied

  
mf
Inactive Member


Message 182 of 204 (94847)
03-25-2004 9:46 PM
Reply to: Message 180 by crashfrog
03-25-2004 8:24 PM


Says you.
Please explain so that I may fix my "ignorance"

This message is a reply to:
 Message 180 by crashfrog, posted 03-25-2004 8:24 PM crashfrog has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 183 by crashfrog, posted 03-25-2004 11:58 PM mf has replied

  
crashfrog
Member (Idle past 1467 days)
Posts: 19762
From: Silver Spring, MD
Joined: 03-20-2003


Message 183 of 204 (94876)
03-25-2004 11:58 PM
Reply to: Message 182 by mf
03-25-2004 9:46 PM


Please explain so that I may fix my "ignorance"
I thought I did, but I guess I'll try again.
What you would call "macroevolution" is simply the result of what you would call "microevolution" happening over a longer period of time.
It's a meaningless distiction, which is why those terms aren't generally used by biologists.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 182 by mf, posted 03-25-2004 9:46 PM mf has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 184 by mf, posted 03-26-2004 10:42 AM crashfrog has replied

  
mf
Inactive Member


Message 184 of 204 (94928)
03-26-2004 10:42 AM
Reply to: Message 183 by crashfrog
03-25-2004 11:58 PM


Alright, alright, I have learned that this is not a term that Evolutionists would use. HOWEVER, this does not mean that it is an invalid term. Evolutionists would seem to think that any change in DNA is the same... That is, it is all 'evaluated' by natural selection and the more lucky organisms that have 'good' DNA change in to a new species (and you must admit that the word species is very misleading, as some species, although they would NOT mate in the wild, have DNA which is capable of being mixed to produce an offspring, or at least, I have never heard differently, but I should like to do an experiment someday to test and see if you could cross a tiger with a house cat... etc.). Now the thing that differentiates the terms "macroevolution" and "microevolution" are the differences between creation theory and evolution theory. This is a problem because it is not ignorance, it is simply a difference in relying on two different theories. I do believe in natural selection. It is very obviously real. People that try to disprove this type of natural evolution are not very smart to do so, because it is obviously not a problem for creation theory. I do not believe that nature could produce significant mutations (such as a change in number of chromosomes) resulting in a species completely incompatible with an unchanged member of the former species. When I say completely, I mean completely not just that they do not mate, but that even if they tried to mate, the difference in chromosome number would make it impossible.
Please forgive me, I will not use these terms again. Instead I will say something like "natural selection" for "micro evolution" and "evolution" for "macroevolution."
~MF

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 Message 183 by crashfrog, posted 03-25-2004 11:58 PM crashfrog has replied

Replies to this message:
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crashfrog
Member (Idle past 1467 days)
Posts: 19762
From: Silver Spring, MD
Joined: 03-20-2003


Message 185 of 204 (94940)
03-26-2004 11:02 AM
Reply to: Message 184 by mf
03-26-2004 10:42 AM


Evolutionists would seem to think that any change in DNA is the same... That is, it is all 'evaluated' by natural selection and the more lucky organisms that have 'good' DNA change in to a new species
This is not a theory in biology that I've ever heard of. I suspect you have your wires crossed about how new species arise. It's not through mutation, but rather, though mutation-caused gene drift acting on a reproductively isolated population.
and you must admit that the word species is very misleading, as some species, although they would NOT mate in the wild, have DNA which is capable of being mixed to produce an offspring
It's not in the least misleading. Rather, the biological concept of species recognizes that speciation is a continuum, which is exactly what you would expect if evolution were true.
I do not believe that nature could produce significant mutations (such as a change in number of chromosomes) resulting in a species completely incompatible with an unchanged member of the former species.
It's pretty well-documented in plants, invertebrates, reptiles and birds, but to a greatly lesser extent in mammals. However according to talkorigins.org individuals of Mus domesticus regularly display varying chromosome numbers.
Instead I will say something like "natural selection" for "micro evolution" and "evolution" for "macroevolution."
That's even less accurate. Natural selection by itself is not sufficient to cause adaptation in populations. You need the influx of random mutation for that to occur. If there's no mutations - no variation in the population - then there's nothing to select.
If you wanted to draw the distinction I think you're trying to draw, the terms you should probably use are "adaptation" and "speciation."
We're careening wildly off-topic. I'm happy to talk about all of this but you should open a new thread. I'll join it, I promise.

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 Message 184 by mf, posted 03-26-2004 10:42 AM mf has not replied

  
RAZD
Member (Idle past 1405 days)
Posts: 20714
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004


Message 186 of 204 (103569)
04-28-2004 11:21 PM
Reply to: Message 115 by Bonobojones
02-03-2004 8:54 PM


Re: Scantlings?
Curious to know - {what \ whose} rules the scantlings are based on for your calculator? So many to choose from? Herreshoff?

we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand
RebelAAmerican.Zen[Deist
{{{Buddha walks off laughing with joy}}}

This message is a reply to:
 Message 115 by Bonobojones, posted 02-03-2004 8:54 PM Bonobojones has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 187 by Bonobojones, posted 04-29-2004 6:47 PM RAZD has replied

  
Bonobojones
Inactive Member


Message 187 of 204 (103900)
04-29-2004 6:47 PM
Reply to: Message 186 by RAZD
04-28-2004 11:21 PM


Re: Scantlings?
I used scantling rules from MacNaughtongroup of Eastport Maine. I worked for a couple of years there as their senior draftsman. As Lloyds discontinued wooden ship scantings and ABS has only steel scantlings, MacNaughton's are the most current. They are an evolutionary development from Nevin's and Herreshoff and there are different rules for carvel, sheathed strip, GRP and metal. Needless to say, I used the carvel rules.
I have used these rules for vessels up to 150' Over this size, bronze floors and strapping are generally used. A 450' vessel would require extensive metal in her structure to keep her from hogging and opening her seams.
Was that any help?

Reunite Gondwana!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 186 by RAZD, posted 04-28-2004 11:21 PM RAZD has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 188 by SRO2, posted 04-29-2004 6:53 PM Bonobojones has not replied
 Message 192 by RAZD, posted 04-30-2004 12:53 AM Bonobojones has replied

  
SRO2 
Inactive Member


Message 188 of 204 (103902)
04-29-2004 6:53 PM
Reply to: Message 187 by Bonobojones
04-29-2004 6:47 PM


Re: Scantlings?
That is fascinating stuff. A ship designer is like the LAST person anybody thought to ask about if the Ark could be built...too funny!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 187 by Bonobojones, posted 04-29-2004 6:47 PM Bonobojones has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 189 by Asgara, posted 04-29-2004 7:15 PM SRO2 has replied

  
Asgara
Member (Idle past 2302 days)
Posts: 1783
From: Wisconsin, USA
Joined: 05-10-2003


Message 189 of 204 (103911)
04-29-2004 7:15 PM
Reply to: Message 188 by SRO2
04-29-2004 6:53 PM


Re: Scantlings?
Don't worry Bonobojones has bashed his head on his monitor around here several times. Some ppl don't care what your credentials are...they won't believe you anyway.

Asgara
"Embrace the pain, spank your inner moppet, whatever....but get over it"

This message is a reply to:
 Message 188 by SRO2, posted 04-29-2004 6:53 PM SRO2 has replied

Replies to this message:
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 Message 191 by Bonobojones, posted 04-29-2004 8:15 PM Asgara has not replied

  
SRO2 
Inactive Member


Message 190 of 204 (103920)
04-29-2004 7:38 PM
Reply to: Message 189 by Asgara
04-29-2004 7:15 PM


Re: Scantlings?
Being a rocket scientist hasn't gotten me anywhere either.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 189 by Asgara, posted 04-29-2004 7:15 PM Asgara has not replied

  
Bonobojones
Inactive Member


Message 191 of 204 (103939)
04-29-2004 8:15 PM
Reply to: Message 189 by Asgara
04-29-2004 7:15 PM


Re: Scantlings?
Asgara. Ayah, got that right. That's why I don't post that often. Sometimes I get so frustrated, I need to spend a week on the sailboat just to unwind. And with the boat on the hard for the winter, it was better to stay away.
Until now.

Reunite Gondwana!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 189 by Asgara, posted 04-29-2004 7:15 PM Asgara has not replied

  
RAZD
Member (Idle past 1405 days)
Posts: 20714
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004


Message 192 of 204 (104026)
04-30-2004 12:53 AM
Reply to: Message 187 by Bonobojones
04-29-2004 6:47 PM


Re: Scantlings?
yes it is. my work is more in the small boat range. largest being a 54 ft commercial fishing ship.

we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand
RebelAAmerican.Zen[Deist
{{{Buddha walks off laughing with joy}}}

This message is a reply to:
 Message 187 by Bonobojones, posted 04-29-2004 6:47 PM Bonobojones has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 193 by Bonobojones, posted 04-30-2004 10:08 AM RAZD has replied

  
Bonobojones
Inactive Member


Message 193 of 204 (104125)
04-30-2004 10:08 AM
Reply to: Message 192 by RAZD
04-30-2004 12:53 AM


Re: Scantlings?
Where do you work? I've been away from it since my 3 Y.O was born, but I still like to sit at the drafting table and putz.
Where do some of these Arkies get their ideas anyway. Certainly not from reality, eh?

Reunite Gondwana!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 192 by RAZD, posted 04-30-2004 12:53 AM RAZD has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 194 by RAZD, posted 04-30-2004 10:47 AM Bonobojones has replied

  
RAZD
Member (Idle past 1405 days)
Posts: 20714
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004


Message 194 of 204 (104136)
04-30-2004 10:47 AM
Reply to: Message 193 by Bonobojones
04-30-2004 10:08 AM


Re: Scantlings?
yeah. the one I find most amusing is this one:
can you imagine the stresses on the hull generated by wave motion on those keelsons?
(ps - you have e-mail on the other stuff, to keep on topic here)

we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand
RebelAAmerican.Zen[Deist
{{{Buddha walks off laughing with joy}}}

This message is a reply to:
 Message 193 by Bonobojones, posted 04-30-2004 10:08 AM Bonobojones has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 195 by Bonobojones, posted 04-30-2004 5:40 PM RAZD has not replied

  
Bonobojones
Inactive Member


Message 195 of 204 (104320)
04-30-2004 5:40 PM
Reply to: Message 194 by RAZD
04-30-2004 10:47 AM


Re: Scantlings?
Looks more like paleolithic wind chimes, eh?

Reunite Gondwana!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 194 by RAZD, posted 04-30-2004 10:47 AM RAZD has not replied

Replies to this message:
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