EvC Forum: Origin of Asteroids

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Topic: Origin of Asteroids

Omnivorous

Member (Idle past 175 days)

Posts: 4001

From: Adirondackia

Joined: 07-21-2005

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Message 25 of 36 (278527)
01-12-2006 7:23 PM

Reply to: Message 20 by doctrbill
12-07-2005 10:41 AM

Re: I don't think it's a spoof

Hi, Doc. Just ran across this message, and it prompted recollection of a recent report that the ocean current that drives the warming Gulf Stream flow to Britain has decreased by 30% in 12 years.

By the way, no, I don't think the web site is a spoof. That extremity is one possible fate for the True Believer.

doctrbill writes:

What I was taught (re: an underground body of water) was in an attempt to explain how the earth could be uniformly warm. To wit: the water circulated from equator to poles and back.

Just so, but underwater instead:

FirstScience.com writes:

The beneficial aspects of ocean currents have long been known. For countries on the east side of the Atlantic, winters are a balmy holiday compared with the same latitudes on the west: the frigid coasts of Newfoundland and Labrador. It's a reminder that "weather" is not just a matter of the Sun's heat affecting the Earth's atmosphere. The world's interconnected oceans can store up solar heat in one part of the globe in one season, and invisible rivers in the ocean can transport the warmth thousands of kilometres to another part of the globe and deliver it in another season.

In the case of the North Atlantic, heat is carried northward and eastward by the Gulf Stream. This current warms the coast evenly through the year, in winter as well as summer. Averaged over a year, the Gulf Stream provides Western Europe with a third as much warmth as the Sun does.

Alas for dreams of fine British vintages! The warm years may be passing...

mediacynic.com, summarizing The Guardian, writes:

Researchers on a scientific expedition in the Atlantic Ocean measured the strength of the current between Africa and the east coast of America and found that the circulation has slowed by 30% since a previous expedition 12 years ago.

The current, which drives the Gulf Stream, delivers the equivalent of 1m power stations-worth of energy to northern Europe, propping up temperatures by 10C in some regions. The researchers found that the circulation has weakened by 6m tonnes of water a second. Previous expeditions to check the current flow in 1957, 1981 and 1992 found only minor changes in its strength, although a slowing was picked up in a further expedition in 1998. The decline prompted the scientists to set up a 4.8m network of moored instruments in the Atlantic to monitor changes in the current continuously.

I guess my point is that folks will engage in fantastical theorizing in a field they remain willfully ignorant of, but then refuse to accept the authentic cautionary tale that ocean science and climatology can tell them.

The evidence-based notion that planetary-scale human impacts on the earth will have planetary-scale consequences?

Bad science, driven by Godless, politically motivated environmental radicals.

The evidence-free notion that planetary-scale cataclysms could leave no planetary-scale signs?

Yeah, that's it, that's the ticket...

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What I refuse to accept is your insistence that your beliefs about your beliefs constitute evidence in support of your beliefs.

This message is a reply to:
	Message 20 by doctrbill, posted 12-07-2005 10:41 AM		doctrbill has replied

Replies to this message:
	Message 26 by RAZD, posted 01-12-2006 8:58 PM	Omnivorous has replied
	Message 29 by doctrbill, posted 01-13-2006 12:41 PM	Omnivorous has not replied

Omnivorous

Member (Idle past 175 days)

Posts: 4001

From: Adirondackia

Joined: 07-21-2005

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Message 27 of 36 (278622)
01-13-2006 9:09 AM

Reply to: Message 26 by RAZD
01-12-2006 8:58 PM

Yes but not right now

It would make a good topic, RAZD, but I'm clawing my way out of both a parainfluenza and culture shock from a week in Texas--maybe later.

Like the affect of warming on hurricane intensity, the magnitude of the Gulf Stream changes is greater than most models predicted.

While I don't push environmental doomsday scenarios, there are recent indications that our wake-up calls will come faster and louder than expected.

On good days, I want to try harder to resist the globe-despoiling political alliance of Profits-and-Prophets; on bad days, I want the earth to scrub itself clean of us and start over.

Today is a medium bad day.

To paraphrase Nirvana, we're so stupid, and contagious.

This message is a reply to:
	Message 26 by RAZD, posted 01-12-2006 8:58 PM		RAZD has not replied

Omnivorous

Member (Idle past 175 days)

Posts: 4001

From: Adirondackia

Joined: 07-21-2005

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Message 31 of 36 (278679)
01-13-2006 1:15 PM

Reply to: Message 30 by doctrbill
01-13-2006 12:49 PM

Why bother?

doctrbill to Coragyps writes:

Correct me if I am wrong but couldn't he counter this argument by suggesting that those rocks which didn't meet the velocity requirements simply fell back to earth or became otherwise lost in space?

Well, he's already abandoned naturalistic causality by supposing a divine providence of geyser-powered mantle launching--so what if some of the pieces must once have moved (or move now) in a fashion incompatible with naturalistic causality?

It is useful and necessary to debunk abuses of science, but this particular sort of abuse is like a fractal one-trick pony: the closer you look, the more you see the same pattern, endlessly unfolding. Faith supposedly has no need of science, but the supposedly faithful cannot leave it alone, acknowledging its power by seeking to subvert it, thereby creating bad science and worse theology.

I'd say the OP site and author are remarkable not so much because of the near-delusional ignorance, but rather the total ineptitude--not just wacky, stupid wacky.

Our EvC creationists are much smarter

Still, once you've made the big poof, the little poofs are easy.

This message is a reply to:
	Message 30 by doctrbill, posted 01-13-2006 12:49 PM		doctrbill has not replied

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