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Member (Idle past 3016 days) Posts: 1174 From: Eugene, Oregon, USA Joined: |
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Author | Topic: Origin of Asteroids | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
doctrbill Member (Idle past 3016 days) Posts: 1174 From: Eugene, Oregon, USA Joined: |
I'd never heard of this "theory." Sounds very wrong to me, but then astrophysics is not my specialty.
Anyone care to take it on? Here's the excerpt which inspired me, from In the Beginning: Compelling Evidence for Creation and the Flood (7th Edition) by Dr. Walt Brown.: quote:And here's the link: Page not found – Center for Scientific Creation A few Questions:Q. Can water be used as a medium to propel rocks into space? Q. Can the "radiometer effect" guide asteroids into stable orbit? Q. Does Quartz melt at 1300 degrees Fahrenheit? Q. Is a mechanical engineer qualified to discuss Astrophysics? My Answers: No, No, No, and No. But, as I say, this is not my field of expertise. db
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Thread moved here from the Proposed New Topics forum.
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crashfrog Member (Idle past 1719 days) Posts: 19762 From: Silver Spring, MD Joined:
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I believe that I pretty much demolished this theory, and the YEC timeline of the age of the Earth, about 2 years ago, in New Nature Article - Spin Control for Asteriods:
quote: Couldn't find a creationist to challenge my point. I guess I'd like to see how a violent upsurge of water could both knock almost an entire planet's-worth of stone into orbit (and leave a habitable world behind) while at the same time synchronizing their rotational periods. I doubt that your mechanical engineer has the answer.
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nwr Member Posts: 6484 From: Geneva, Illinois Joined: Member Rating: 8.8 |
Q. Can water be used as a medium to propel rocks into space?
That sounds implausible to me.
Q. Can the "radiometer effect" guide asteroids into stable orbit?
The asteroid would have to already be in a stable orbit. The effects of radiation pressure are small, and would have to act over a very long time. Unless the asteroid were already in a somewhat stable orbit, it would not remain close enough to the source of radiation for there to be much effect.
Q. Does Quartz melt at 1300 degrees Fahrenheit?
A google search gave me something closer to 1600 Celsius.
Q. Is a mechanical engineer qualified to discuss Astrophysics
Not automatically. But there is no reason an engineer could not make a hobby of astrophysics.
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Minnemooseus Member Posts: 3971 From: Duluth, Minnesota, U.S. (West end of Lake Superior) Joined: Member Rating: 7.2 |
Q. Does Quartz melt at 1300 degrees Fahrenheit? SiO2 has many different crystal structures, which are stable or metastable at various ranges of temperatures and pressures. Per An Introduction to the Rock Forming Minerals by Deer, Howie, & Zussman, the ultimate melting point of SiO2 is 1730o Celsius, which (if I did the conversions correctly) equals 3115o Fahrenheit. Now, I believe the above is for pure SiO2. The presence of water effects the crystallization temperatures. Offhand, I think this is getting into a hybrid area that also involves solution effects. 1300o Fahrenheit equals 690o Celsius. Offhand, this seems to be in the ballpark of the temperature that the last Quartz will crystallize out, when in a cooling high water environment. Once again, this is more a matter of crystallizing out of an water solution, rather that crystallizing out of a melt. Or something like that. Moose Edited to repair coding, which I lost when I did a non-raw text copy and paste. This message has been edited by minnemooseus, 12-06-2005 03:32 PM
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doctrbill Member (Idle past 3016 days) Posts: 1174 From: Eugene, Oregon, USA Joined: |
Thanks Crash.
That's an interesting bit of astro-trivia I'd never heard about but am happy to know. I'm sure MY mechanical engineer doesn't have the answer! One might say his theory is "all wet." Theology is the science of Dominion. - - - My God is your god's Boss - - -
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doctrbill Member (Idle past 3016 days) Posts: 1174 From: Eugene, Oregon, USA Joined: |
Thanks for the prompt reply.
I agree with your responses, of course, even the last one; to which I must say: My field is Life Science, my degree is Biology, but I'm a dangerously atheistic Bible Thumper. Theology is the science of Dominion. - - - My God is your god's Boss - - -
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doctrbill Member (Idle past 3016 days) Posts: 1174 From: Eugene, Oregon, USA Joined: |
Guess I'm going to have to review the article now to see if our guy may have been referring to just that. But I don't believe he was. I got the distinct impression that he was talking about the temperature of fusion. I used to play with quartz powder, fusing it into globules for use in homemade jewelry so when I saw that temp. for the melting point of quartz I figured our guy for a crackpot.
Later then. Theology is the science of Dominion. - - - My God is your god's Boss - - -
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doctrbill Member (Idle past 3016 days) Posts: 1174 From: Eugene, Oregon, USA Joined: |
It would appear that I was correct. Here it is, copied and pasted:
quote:And this somehow happened under water? There is a page which supposedly explains how this happened. I'm not following the text very well, but the graphic is adequately revealing. How did he get these pictures, I wonder. Page not found – Center for Scientific Creation db Theology is the science of Dominion. - - - My God is your god's Boss - - -
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Minnemooseus Member Posts: 3971 From: Duluth, Minnesota, U.S. (West end of Lake Superior) Joined: Member Rating: 7.2 |
The lowest temperature Quartz crystallization scenario is how pegmatites are formed. These are the VERY coarse grained rocks that might be found as the final phase of a granite bodies formation. I don't know if there are any examples of the reverse process having happened.
Obviously, the final pegmatite crystallization is happening at something greater than standard atmospheric pressures, as the boiling point of water is at or above that c. 700o Celcius temperature. In all, Walt Brown seems to be, at best, working in the realm of dubious quality science fiction. Moose
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Coragyps Member (Idle past 986 days) Posts: 5553 From: Snyder, Texas, USA Joined:
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Good ol' Walt!
My favorite parts of his "theory" are:1) Asteroids would of necessity have chemical and isotopic compositions like Earth's crust - and they don't. 2) Asteroids launched from the cannon of the midocean ridges would all be on earth-intersecting orbits - all of them don't seem likely to have gotton promoted to new orbits on the first time around. Noah would have needed to dodge a lot. 3) Launched by superheated steam.....how did that cool before falling back to earth, again? Radiation into a vacuum, with no heat directed arkwards? |
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Matt P Member (Idle past 5027 days) Posts: 106 From: Tampa FL Joined:
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It's true that asteroids are pretty much void of quartz, and Brown handwaves this away by saying it melted away, but he apparently doesn't know much about asteroids/meteorites. Meteorites have a lot of volatile minerals, including things like clays, iron sulfide, and magnetite. These minerals all vaporize/change at temperatures much lower than 1300 F. Why aren't they all gone as well?
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doctrbill Member (Idle past 3016 days) Posts: 1174 From: Eugene, Oregon, USA Joined: |
I have as yet been unable to find any data online regarding the physical specifications of the materials you mention. Could you direct me to a source of such (preferably online)?
Theology is the science of Dominion. - - - My God is your god's Boss - - -
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coffee_addict Member (Idle past 119 days) Posts: 3645 From: Indianapolis, IN Joined: |
Are you sure the website isn't a spoof?
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doctrbill Member (Idle past 3016 days) Posts: 1174 From: Eugene, Oregon, USA Joined: |
Do you think it's a spoof?
Theology is the science of Dominion. - - - My God is your god's Boss - - -
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