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Author Topic:   Creationist experiment to prove the possibility of Noah's ark
menes777
Member (Idle past 3062 days)
Posts: 36
From: Wichita, KS, USA
Joined: 01-25-2010


Message 34 of 115 (544366)
01-25-2010 5:17 PM


Specialized foods
I have always wondered how do you get all of the specialized foods on the ark for all the different creatures with unique diets. Such as some requiring fresh nectar, live food (such as mice), fresh leaves (Eucalyptus) and so on. Much less the dietary requirements that aren't so unusual. Such as how do you keep vegetables from spoiling (much less fresh) in a dark, damp boat with no refrigeration?

I have heard all sorts of explanations about using dried or compressed foods, but none of them really make sense.

I also think another question would be how do you feed a mobile zoo that is many times larger than any zoo in existence with only 8 people? Without the help of automation or modern feeding techniques?


  
menes777
Member (Idle past 3062 days)
Posts: 36
From: Wichita, KS, USA
Joined: 01-25-2010


Message 35 of 115 (544371)
01-25-2010 5:37 PM


quote:
I vaguely remember someone on this board suggested that to solve the fresh water supply problem Noah had to drill a hole or two right below the water line.

The question here would be how fresh is the flood water? I did this little bit awhile back on another board (http://www.ooblick.com/...d-gets-taken-again/#comment-174224) and thought I might share it here. It's of course barring the fact that you can drink the flood water.

quote:
Another problem you have to consider is the water problem. I did some fairly rough calculations on how much water would be required for about a year’s voyage at sea (314 days) for 16,000 animals.

Assuming the ark is your dimensions above, it’s about 41,006 cubic meters (1,518,750 cubic feet).

16,000 animals x 314 days x 1 liter/day = 5,024,000 Liters consumed the entire trip. – Now that is 1 liter for not only consumption but for sanitation and cleaning. Meaning one half of a two liter bottle per day for a year.

5,024,000 Liters = ~ 5,024 cubic meters of space or about 12.3% of the entire space available on the ark. Now either Noah had an extremely sophisticated water distribution system to get the water from a large vat to the rest of the ship or he had to store it in barrels, which in turn would take up more space and require more time in watering and cleaning the animals. The big vat theory also has some problems as it would either take up most of one deck level or would extend down below the water level. Either way it would be a festering zone for algae and bacteria, not to mention possible contamination by the outside water from leakage. But that 1 liter is really not realistic, let’s look at a more realistic number.

16,000 animals x 314 days x 5 liter/day = 25,120,000 Liters consumed the entire trip.
5 liters seems a bit more realistic when you take into account consumption as well as sanitation and even waste. You also have to consider that if dried foods are used (which another creationist states as part of his ark model) that water intake must increase sometimes as much as 2 fold (sometimes 3).

25,120,000 Liters = ~ 25,120 Cubic Meters.
Houston we have a problem! That is 61.3% of the ENTIRE space of the ark used for only water??? That might give some insights into why a mission to Mars for a handful of people is a very risky proposal. Ignoring the difficulties of storing, accessing and even filling the ark with enough fresh water, there still needs to be room left over for food, the animals and a way to get to those animals in a way that they can be cared for. Not to mention ventilation for fresh air and exercise.


The rebuttal to that was that fresh water could be pumped in from the outside. However, considering the other issues going on with the Ark I doubt that would be possible. Any ideas as to how that would be feasible?


Replies to this message:
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menes777
Member (Idle past 3062 days)
Posts: 36
From: Wichita, KS, USA
Joined: 01-25-2010


Message 44 of 115 (544450)
01-26-2010 2:08 PM


I found this little snippet on another Noah's Ark site (http://www.abarnett.demon.co.uk/atheism/noahs_ark.html) which in turn got it from Alt.Atheism. Really gives some perspective on what it takes to keep animals fed.

quote:

From The Dallas Morning News, November ?? 1996:

What? Rat again?
You thought you had trouble selling your family on the remains of the Thanksgiving turkey. Over at the Dallas Zoo, they're dealing with some tougher-to-push leftovers.

Here's what the zoo offered its residents for Thanksgiving:

* A ton of hay,
* 35 pounds of fish,
* 50 pounds of meat,
* 100 stalks of celery,
* five pounds of red onions,
* 100 pounds of carrots,
* 25 pounds of spinach,
* 15 pounds of kale,
* 10 pounds of mixed vegetables,
* 150 pounds of sweet potatoes,
* 10 heads of cabbage,
* 48 heads of romaine,
* 30 ears of corn,
* four loaves of wheat bread,
* 24 eggs,
* a pound of yogurt,
* 40 pounds of bananas,
* eight pounds of blueberries,
* 170 oranges,
* 500 apples,
* 36 cantaloupes,
* four papayas,
* 250 rodents (the variety pack),
* 6000 mealworms,
* 600 wax worms and
* 7500 crickets.


Let's just take the first item on the list, a ton of Hay. How much exactly is a ton of Hay? Well doing some googling it looks like 1 of those big bales (6' in diameter, 6' in height) is about a ton of hay. Now continuing this suppose we can feed all of the animals on the ship with a ton of hay a day. That means we could feed the whole ship on 314 tons of hay or 314 of those large bales. What is the volume of those large hay bales though?

Ok assuming 6' diameter and 6' in height, that would come to about 20 cubic meters. Now 314 of those would make about 6280 cubic meters for all the hay for all year.

If we use our earlier figure of 41,006 cubic meters, that would mean that ~15% of the ship would go towards hay bale storage. Could 16,000 animals share a ton of hay between themselves for one day (not to mention not everything can eat hay)? Not if you want them to still be alive after a year. That's about a 1/10th of a pound per animal.

If we change hay to be just generic food (yes not all food has the density and weight of hay) and we average out the consumption rates of the animals to 1 pound per day (which is probably far too low). Then the problem should become very clear. It would require 62,800 cubic meters of space for food alone, or 150% of ship capacity. Were there three arks? One for food, one for water and one for animals?


  
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