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Author | Topic: Creationist experiment to prove the possibility of Noah's ark | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Manifest Junior Member (Idle past 5124 days) Posts: 4 Joined: |
quote:Implying Noah - being around 600 years old - wasn't wise enough to bring young ones on the ark. One would have to count the kinds of animals out there which are clean and unclean. The kinds being essentially the ones which could originally breed. Wolves, dogs, jackals, coyotes are the same kind of animal so you don't need to bring one of every species merely a puppy dog male and female. We could try to figure this out in this thread. Some think it would be between 1000 to 8000 - which considering the size of the boat - being around 25,000 square feet as far as I know - is nothing. In fact I think in China they built an exact replica size wise of the boat so this shouldn't be hard to do.http://www.clipsyndicate.com/...full_size_noah_s_ark_replica Having this many people on the boat to take care of so few animals simply feeding them and taking the excrement is nothing big to believe in. Less feeding less excrement. Being eight aboard the boat to separate tasks. Take the biggest number being 8000 animals. Divide it by 8 for the number of people. 1000 animals to feed a day (if you feed them daily instead of leaving them food to eat when they are hungry this is assuming a 10 hour workday which is 600 minutes. This leaves about 36 seconds to throw the hay or whichever food they were eating - maybe they separated the animals in rows according to what they eat - and scoop excrements doesn't seem like a hard thing to do.
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Manifest Junior Member (Idle past 5124 days) Posts: 4 Joined: |
quote:robots and food replicators and monkeys huh? I can tell you don't care to look at this seriously. Stocked up food for a year aboard a giant ship to feed young animals is hard how exactly? The boat was about 25,000 square feet. quote:You haven't even read the genesis account. No insects were brought onboard. Gen 7:15 And they went in unto Noah into the ark, two and two of all flesh, wherein is the breath of life. Gen 7:22 All in whose nostrils was the breath of life, of all that was in the dry land, died. Insects have no nostrils. Pay attention also that the verses are referring to kinds and not speciation which is a modern human classification system.
quote:Yes. Animals take care of each other in the wild all they need to be provided with here is the food which again they could have just put it all there for them from the start. Excrements probably was most of what they spent their time picking up and this wouldn't take very long at all seeing as how most of these animals again are very small due to their age. quote:Fields say nothing of their own. Some can claim genetic diversity which we observe today cannot have varied so much in 4,400 years but this isn't what we really observe. Fish going into dark caves lose their eyes over a few generations because they don't need them. When they get out of the cave the opposite happen. A certain island has deer which have grown smaller over a few generation because of the small amount of food on the island. Years of selective breeding have produced the chihuahua. As far as archaeology is concerned in tying this with knowing the age of these different animals having diverged before the flood you would have to tie it in to carbon dating to figure this out which is really what this boils down to. The problem is is if the flood occurred your carbon dating of these fossils wouldn't be reliable due to being heavily affected in this disaster. Edited by Manifest, : species to speciation
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Manifest Junior Member (Idle past 5124 days) Posts: 4 Joined: |
quote: quote:Fossils can be carbon dated and they are only assumed to be older by the theory of evolution which you have chosen to put your faith in. Your claim that 50k years not being long enough to fossilize a dead animal is unscientific. Suffice to say - since admittedly you're not serious about any of this - that when a fish lies in water and is dead and is rotting the first thing that happens is the ligament attaching the head rots away and the head drops off. Eventually it puffs up and all the scales fall off and then it deteriorates and in a very short period of time that fish is gone. So we wouldn't have fossilisation of these creatures today they would just disappear and dissipate and the bacteria and the scavengers and what have you they would come and that thing is gone. But we do indeed have fish fossilized and many of them are perfect which means they must have been buried instantaneously. Some of them don't have heads that means they floated in the water for a few days (not a long time) and then were buried. You can go look in the bottom of the sea you won't find piles of scales that could fossilize they just don't exist. So this is catastrophism. Sometimes you have perfect fossils of fish which are eating another fish even. http://siriusknotts.files.wordpress.com/.../vacation-010.jpg [while writing this the window I'm typing this in turned grey so I'll have to retype every single thing I typed after this point. I'll just try to summarize it] quote:Where in the bible does it say that animals were brought which at an old age? Why would Noah bring older ones which are bigger, eat more, defecate more and are less innocent towards other animals. quote:I already provided the quotes. Gen 7:15 And they went in unto Noah into the ark, two and two of all flesh, wherein is the breath of life. Also you may want to look at this verse which mentions every living thing of all flesh.Gen 6:19 And of every living thing of all flesh, two of every sort shalt thou bring into the ark, to keep them alive with thee; they shall be male and female. (Gen 7:17) 40 --the number of days it rained(Gen 7:24) 110 --the number of days "the waters prevailed on the earth" so two of every insects had to live on floating vegetation mats, trees and carcasses for 110 days in the entire world. Woop dee doo.
quote:I see no reason why any of them wouldn't, do you? The question is not about whether or not they had a quality time, it's merely about whether or not they were able to survive for 110 days. quote:Need I remind you that the flood wiped out the earth? So the diversity would have come from the ones which were on board after the flood. I have provided examples which show rapid adaptation so to say drastic adaptation cannot occur rapidly is absurd. Remember the example of dogs being selectively bread to create the chihuahua. This didn't take long at all. quote:proceed to post from religioustolerance.org I don't go by the name of the website. An article could be posted on the church of satan if it's content is true the hosting site has no bearing on it. I find the irony of your question considering what you've posted interesting however. Nothing unusual.
quote:thank you but again the questions are based upon the false assumptions that it makes. Concidering the flood all pre-flood dates especially couldn't be reliable. 1- A constant rate of decay is assumed a) The constancy of cosmic ray bombardment might be questioned. The current high rate of entry might be a consequence of a disturbed post-flood environment that altered the carbon-14 to carbon-12 ratio. Pre-flood dates would thus have to be discarded. b) An increase in the magnetic field of the earth would have shielded the earth from cosmic rays. Some scientists argue that the magnetic field of the earth has declined over time. c) Atmospheric carbon forms just 0.0005% of the current carbon reservoir-99.66% of the earth's carbon exists in limestone, 0.31% in oil and gas, and 0.02% in coal. carbon-14 comes from nitrogen and is independent of the carbon-12 reservoir. If even a small percentage of the limestone deposits were still in the form of living marine organisms at the time of the flood, then the small amount of carbon-14 would have mixed with a much larger carbon-12 reservoir, thus resulting in a drastically reduced ratio. Specimens would then look much older than they actually are. d) Even if the rate of decay is constant, without knowledge of the exact ratio of carbon-12 to carbon-14 in the initial sample, the dating technique is subject to question. 2- It's assumed that the clock was set to zero when the study material was formed. This requires that only the parent isotope be initially present or that the amount of daughter isotope present at the beginning is known so that it can be subtracted. 3- It is assumed that we are dealing with a closed system-no loss of either parent or daughter elements has occurred since the study material formed. quote:Indeed but I did not breach the topic of carbon dating, you did. And if this is brought up to argue against the position I hold I have the right to answer. quote:By and large no. As soon as an animal start eating regular food which it will eat for the rest of its life it doesn't consume more than an adult would. quote:I don't agree, they handle themselves instinctively. They wouldn't need anyways as the point of the trip was to keep them alive not for them to have a quality of time aboard the boat. quote:Many carnivores, including lions and tigers, can readily manage on a vegetarian diet, and this may have happened on the Ark. Dogs are considered carnivores, but dogs in some countries actually survive on a primarily vegetarian diet. If it was unavoidably necessary for some of the Ark’s tenants to have meat in their diet, this could have been readily accomplished using salted meat, reconstituted dried meat, or fresh meat from fodder animals carried aboard for this purpose. Tortoises are a good example of a fodder animal. Tortoises can survive up to a year and a half in captivity without water or food. In olden days, the famous Galpagos tortoise nearly went extinct due in part to its popularity as a fodder food. Thousands were taken aboard sailing ships to be kept as a source of fresh meat. [pasted from Feeding carnivores on the Ark, and refuting an accusation of 'closet scientism' - creation.com] quote:It took over 100 years for Noah to prepare the Ark and the things in the Ark, so I would say that's enough time to prepare. quote:You could easily go on websites from those who have answered all of these questions. This is akin to people who bring up alleged bible contradictions not having gone over and looked up to see if those had been answered by biblical scholars or bible commentaries a million times already. quote:Gen 6:19 And of every living thing of all flesh, two of every sort shalt thou bring into the ark, to keep them alive with thee; they shall be male and female. Gen 7:15 And they went in unto Noah into the ark, two and two of all flesh, wherein is the breath of life. Flesh Reading the subsequent verse with this in mind: Insects do not breathe through nostrilsGen 7:22 All in whose nostrils was the breath of life, of all that was in the dry land, died. quote:................???? quote:No most of them do not die, their instincts keep them alive quite well. The fact that they were young on board means they didn't have to worry about predators either. Are you saying young animals which are given food daily living around others will die within a year? quote:1. Hasn't been my experience, but so what? 2. Food were most likely in the form of hay, dried fruit, salted meat, dried meat, and dried fish and perhaps fodder food like tortoises like earlier mentioned. 3. If you're so inclined as to wonder about the animals which you think would absolutely spoil their food need I remind you there are 8 humans on board. quote:Again, animals take care of themselves without a problem. Furthermore it's not about a luxury voyage aboard a cruise ship, we're talking survival for a year. quote:it takes it...? In any case, the reasoning that they must have been young is a logical one. The bible doesn't mention their age, so why do you assume they were old? Wouldn't they take much more space then? I see no reason for this. I am much younger than Noah and I can figure so much out. As far as repopulating all animal life that's an issue how? The more there is food the more animals will breed generally. When you have a scarcity of food the animals stop breeding or move. So having so few animals over 4000 years is a challenge how? Need I remind you this is an exponential rate of replication. I'm sure you're aware of the rabbits being brought over to Australia in 1859. From Wikipedia: [Rabbits in Australia - Wikipedia]In Australia, rabbits are a serious mammalian pests and are an invasive species. Annually, European rabbits cause millions of dollars of damage to crops. There is absolutely no reason whatsoever to believe that any kind of animal today couldn't have replicated so much in over 4300 years to account for the population we have nowadays. If you disagree I'd like to hear an example.
quote:So I take it you have no answer for any of it? Edited by Manifest, : forgot to answer a man who almost had an aneurysm
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Manifest Junior Member (Idle past 5124 days) Posts: 4 Joined: |
quote:Implying this means anything quote:implying this means anything. What if a 4 years old girl put forward these false assumptions what difference does it make? Does it make it less valid? Do those assumptions belong to him? quote:This is the difference. I try not to put much faith in elitism. If you have nothing to provide as for the substance I've raised why did you bother answering? quote:Isn't that ironic considering you're relegated answering this to others? quote:You wouldn't know, you've admittedly said you will leave it to others to answer me. The "experts" quote:Seething arrogance and irony as well considering the erstwhile lecture you gave me about believing in what others say you've relegated this answer to others. quote:Seems some have slipped into cognitive dissonance. Are these the experts you're referring to Peepul. Edited by Manifest, : No reason given.
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