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Author | Topic: Creationist experiment to prove the possibility of Noah's ark | |||||||||||||||||||||||
hooah212002 Member (Idle past 1062 days) Posts: 3193 Joined: |
In fact I think in China they built an exact replica size wise of the boat so this shouldn't be hard to do. http://www.clipsyndicate.com/...full_size_noah_s_ark_replica Is it seaworthy? It would seem quite easy to build the thing to scale, but not put it in the water. Hell, he could have made it from cement. "Some people think God is an outsized, light-skinned male with a long white beard, sitting on a throne somewhere up there in the sky, busily tallying the fall of every sparrow. Othersfor example Baruch Spinoza and Albert Einsteinconsidered God to be essentially the sum total of the physical laws which describe the universe. I do not know of any compelling evidence for anthropomorphic patriarchs controlling human destiny from some hidden celestial vantage point, but it would be madness to deny the existence of physical laws."-Carl Sagan "On a personal note I think he's the greatest wrestler ever. He's better than Lou Thesz, Gorgeous George -- you name it."-The Hulkster on Nature Boy Ric Flair
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ZenMonkey Member (Idle past 4771 days) Posts: 428 From: Portland, OR USA Joined: |
Not exactly. You'd just be keeping with a literal reading. It pretty clearly states that Noah built the Ark, but that God gathered the animals for him, or at least that they magically appeared on schedule. So no inconsistancy there. No mention of the Robot Monkeys, though.
I have no time for lies and fantasy, and neither should you. Enjoy or die. -John Lydon
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hooah212002 Member (Idle past 1062 days) Posts: 3193 Joined: |
It pretty clearly states that Noah built the Ark, Yes, yes it does. But:
but that God gathered the animals for him. then that depends on your definition of "clearly". if we read it literally, the animals just poofed there: no god involved. "Some people think God is an outsized, light-skinned male with a long white beard, sitting on a throne somewhere up there in the sky, busily tallying the fall of every sparrow. Othersfor example Baruch Spinoza and Albert Einsteinconsidered God to be essentially the sum total of the physical laws which describe the universe. I do not know of any compelling evidence for anthropomorphic patriarchs controlling human destiny from some hidden celestial vantage point, but it would be madness to deny the existence of physical laws."-Carl Sagan "On a personal note I think he's the greatest wrestler ever. He's better than Lou Thesz, Gorgeous George -- you name it."-The Hulkster on Nature Boy Ric Flair
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ZenMonkey Member (Idle past 4771 days) Posts: 428 From: Portland, OR USA Joined: |
You are correct. Here's Genesis 7:8-9
quote: Poof! I have no time for lies and fantasy, and neither should you. Enjoy or die. -John Lydon
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Jumped Up Chimpanzee Member (Idle past 5202 days) Posts: 572 From: UK Joined: |
JUC writes: The story doesn't make any sense at any level. Taq says:Sure it does. It makes complete sense as a moral tale about a new god emerging within a cult in Mesopotamia. The relationship between man and this new god were told through age-old stories that already existed in the area, namely Babylonian myths. But in a historical, factual sense, no it doesn't make any sense at all. But it wasn't a new god, was it? I admit it's been a long time since I read the story, but if I remember correctly the whole idea was that god was angry with mankind and wanted to wipe everyone out except Noah and his family. The story implies that the god and mankind had already been around for some time to get to that supposed state of affairs. And, as Son says, how was drowning almost everyone a test mankind's faith? If god wanted to get rid of all the sin, surely the way to do it was to either wipe the slate clean and start again with new species, or to somehow magically change the existing species. Wiping out all but a few of every species and then allowing those species to breed again without changing their behaviour (we're still sinners, aren't we?) didn't achieve anything. What is the moral?
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Itinerant Lurker Member (Idle past 2916 days) Posts: 67 Joined: |
quote: Halfway through our states round of standardized testing a test where failure = drowning sounds delightful. That's pretty pass/fail then.
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Taq Member Posts: 10304 Joined: Member Rating: 7.3 |
Test for humankind as a whole? You mean he tested how long on average it took for a human to drown, or did he just want to see who would survive the longest? Did the strongest guy at least receive a prize? If Noah had not built the Ark then humankind would have come to an end. Noah's actions were based on faith, and that was the test.
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Taq Member Posts: 10304 Joined: Member Rating: 7.3 |
But it wasn't a new god, was it? Newer than the Mesopotamian gods. Given the lack of any evidence for the Exodus it is much more likely that the Hebrew religion originated in Babylonia. Given that the Bible borrows heavily from Babylonian religious myths this would seem to make sense. The Noah myth is a blatant copy of the Babylonian flood story. The Babylonian god Lilith makes an appearance in the Genesis creation myth in the form of the talking serpent. There are simply too many parallels to ignore.
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Jumped Up Chimpanzee Member (Idle past 5202 days) Posts: 572 From: UK Joined: |
Hi Taq
I'm quite willing to accept that Noah's Ark and other stories originated in Babylonian myths. But the story still doesn't make moral or practical sense, even if it were a test of Noah's faith to see if he would build an Ark if he were warned about a flood. Firstly, and I can't remember the story exactly, but if God told Noah to build the Ark because he was going to make a big flood, Noah was already in dialogue with God, so what was the test of faith? It couldn't have been a test of faith in the existence of God. It could only have been a test of faith in God keeping his word. But surely there are easier and more ethical ways to prove you will keep your word than by flooding the whole world and drowning everything. And secondly, it still doesn't explain why it was necessary to build a boat to carry all the animals. If God could safely deliver a pair of animals from all over the world across the oceans to Noah, at what point and for what purpose did Noah's boat suddenly become necessary. And it still doesn't explain why God didn't just zap everything dead, thereby proving himself and his word.
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Apothecus Member (Idle past 2671 days) Posts: 275 From: CA USA Joined: |
But surely there are easier and more ethical ways to prove you will keep your word than by flooding the whole world and drowning everything. Or by commanding you to kill your only son. On an altar. With a big knife. Sorry. Off topic. "My own suspicion is that the Universe is not only queerer than we suppose, but queerer than we can suppose. J.B.S Haldane 1892-1964
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Taq Member Posts: 10304 Joined: Member Rating: 7.3 |
But the story still doesn't make moral or practical sense, even if it were a test of Noah's faith to see if he would build an Ark if he were warned about a flood. I don't see it that way. When it is put into historical context and compared to the myths of the time it makes a lot of sense. You might as well ask why it was necessary to sink the Titanic just to get a couple of horny kids together. It's a moral tale writ large, an epic story. If it was just about a small event that happened to just one family what fun would there be in telling the story around the campfire?
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Son Member (Idle past 4090 days) Posts: 346 From: France,Paris Joined: |
I think we are discussing past each others here. You're arguing that how the story came to be and how it is interpreted can make perfect sense given the context while others are pointing out that the story makes no sense if you interprete it the way creationnists do. It's not even clear to me that those two propositions are contradictory (btw ignore my previous post, it was just a lame attempt at humor but somehow I never manage to be funny on the net).
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pandion Member (Idle past 3260 days) Posts: 166 From: Houston Joined: |
Yet another That Boat Don't Float Discussion
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xXGEARXx Member (Idle past 5381 days) Posts: 41 Joined: |
The Noah myth is a blatant copy of the Babylonian flood story. I thought the story of Noah came from the ancient Sumerian epic of Gilgamesh? Since Sumerian culture predates Noah's time and the flood story sounds dreadfully similar to noah's. Then again, first the Sumerian then the Babylonian, right? Edited by xXGEARXx, : No reason given. Edited by xXGEARXx, : No reason given. Edited by xXGEARXx, : No reason given. Edited by xXGEARXx, : LOL! Finally figured out I forgot the first "s" to make a quote appear as a quote. ha ha!
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Theodoric Member Posts: 9489 From: Northwest, WI, USA Joined: Member Rating: 6.3 |
Pay attention also that the verses are referring to kinds and not speciation which is a modern human classification system. Do you have a definition for kind? No other creationists seems to have a definition that stands up to questioning. Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts
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