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Author | Topic: Creationist experiment to prove the possibility of Noah's ark | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
evolutionfacts Junior Member (Idle past 2773 days) Posts: 12 From: Long Beach, CA Joined: |
A good idea. But even its failure would be explained away by the fact that this time around, it lacked divine protection. It always comes back to that.
Edited by evolutionfacts, : Spelling error
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Taz Member (Idle past 3548 days) Posts: 5069 From: Zerus Joined: |
Is doubletime still around? His posts almost gave me an aneurysm.
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Minnemooseus Member Posts: 3971 From: Duluth, Minnesota, U.S. (West end of Lake Superior) Joined: Member Rating: 7.1 |
Why need robot monkeys when you have an all powerful God as your assistant?
Since we're already dealing with a divinely created flood, with God getting and disposing of vast volumes of water from and to, literally, God only knows where... Why not just have more miraculous assistance from God, to construct and keep the ark intact and afloat, and to tend to the needs of the arks contents? What problems can't be overcome by the practical application of miracles? Think of the power of "the divine pooper-scooper". Moose
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ringo Member (Idle past 668 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Minnemooseus writes:
I try to point out to floodists that God made Noah build his own ark - i.e. Noah was responsible for his own safety. "God did it," might be a convenient catch-all explanation, but that isn't the way the Bible tells it. What problems can't be overcome by the practical application of miracles? If you have nothing to say, you could have done so much more concisely. -- Dr Adequate
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ZenMonkey Member (Idle past 4767 days) Posts: 428 From: Portland, OR USA Joined: |
Considering the quality of Manifest's Ark apologetics (e.g in Message 59, to which I was replying), I still contend that the Flying Robot Monkey hypothesis is the more reasonable and parsimonious.
I'm just saying. I have no time for lies and fantasy, and neither should you. Enjoy or die. -John Lydon Reality has a well-known liberal bias.-Steven Colbert I never meant to say that the Conservatives are generally stupid. I meant to say that stupid people are generally Conservative. I believe that is so obviously and universally admitted a principle that I hardly think any gentleman will deny it.- John Stuart Mill
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Minnemooseus Member Posts: 3971 From: Duluth, Minnesota, U.S. (West end of Lake Superior) Joined: Member Rating: 7.1 |
And I say, if you're working the realm of a miraculous flood (that worldly evidence says never happened), why not pile on as many miracles as needed?
Although a miraculous shrinking down of all animals to mouse size or smaller might be asking too much, even of an all powerful God. Moose
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mram10 Member (Idle past 3759 days) Posts: 84 Joined:
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I was really hoping to find a place where we could stay on topic and REALLY discuss true science. I have to say, after lurking for a long time on this forum, that I am disappointed. Instead of bashing each other, why not try to answer and seek knowledge?
Also, if you are going to refute the flood story, at least read the Bible and KNOW what it says instead of regurgitating the talking point on anti-christian websites. We can all do that to each other.
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jar Member (Idle past 95 days) Posts: 34140 From: Texas!! Joined:
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Well, the Flood story is of course totally refuted, it just plain never happened.
Whether or not an Ark is possible is totally irrelevant. Here is the absolute refutation based directly on what the Bible claims we MUST see if the flood really happened.
quote: It's not a matter of anyone being anti-Christian; I am a Christian. It's a matter of what is supported by the evidence and the evidence totally refutes any world-wide flood as described in the Bible stories. To claim otherwise is simply to be wrong.Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!
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mram10 Member (Idle past 3759 days) Posts: 84 Joined:
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My point is this: people that posted in this thread, brought up numerous arguments that were contrary to the biblical account. We cannot argue apples and oranges and expect to find evidence either way.
Also, I do not know if you are a christian or not. I am simply stating people regurgitate talking points off of anti-christian websites. The hate toward christians is very obvious on many of them, which is why I used the term. As for bottlenecks, I have seen that before. I will study up on that more, which is why I read this. Not to push my agenda and arrogantly belittle people. I am here to see both sides so I can form a REAL educated opinion on this.
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jar Member (Idle past 95 days) Posts: 34140 From: Texas!! Joined: |
Great, study. Reality though is that the Biblical Flood never happened, the Exodus never happened as described in the Bible, the Conquest of Canaan as described in Joshua is pure fiction...
It is not a matter of hate as much as hilarity. Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!
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fearandloathing Member (Idle past 4401 days) Posts: 990 From: Burlington, NC, USA Joined: |
, I do not know if you are a christian or not. What does being a christian have anything to do with reality? A nation of sheep will beget a government of wolves. ― Edward R. Murrow "You don't have to burn books to destroy a culture. Just get people to stop reading them" - Ray Bradbury
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Coyote Member (Idle past 2362 days) Posts: 6117 Joined:
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Welcome to the fray!
My point is this: people that posted in this thread, brought up numerous arguments that were contrary to the biblical account.
Let me run some evidence by you and see what you think. This evidence is not from any website, anti-Christian or not. It is from my own research as an archaeologist. Two points that can't be ignored from the flood story: the flood was worldwide, and it occurred during historic times. Biblical scholars generally cite a date about 4,350 years ago. If that story is accurate we should be able to examine sediments of that approximate age and find evidence of a flood, shown by either deposition or erosion. Floods leave distinctive evidence behind and archaeologists and other -ologists are pretty good at deciphering that evidence. (Google "channeled scablands" for some classic examples. Those floods in southern and eastern Washington were limited in area, not global, and about three times older than Noah's flood, but we can see the evidence they left very clearly.) From my own archaeological research in >100 sites, most of which contain sediments about 4,350 years old, I have yet to see evidence of a flood in any of them. This alone disproves the idea of a global flood at about that time. (My colleagues across the country and across the world report similar lack of flood evidence at that time period.) If you disagree with this finding, you can perform your own experiment: a global flood would have left evidence globally, including in your back yard. You can learn some archaeology and sedimentology and check for yourself! It is easier to do in archaeological sites, so perhaps you can take some classes and go on a field school that will be working with a site of the proper age. In any case, you don't have to take my word for it, you can conduct the experiment yourself. But don't get your hopes up. Modern geology developed through efforts to prove the flood occurred, and the folks trying to do that gave up just about 200 years ago. A second line of evidence: In a cave in southern Alaska a skeleton was found and dated to ca. 10,300 years ago. It had a very distinct mtDNA pattern, designated D4h3. That mtDNA has been found in living individuals on the west coasts of both North and South America. This evidence by itself shows that there was no extinction of humans in the intervening time. Rather, we have continuity of that mtDNA pattern where the flood story would require total replacement by a mtDNA pattern spreading out from the Near East. From my own archaeological research I have a similar example of continuity of mtDNA, in this case Haplotype A2, from about 5,300 years ago to the present. I welcome your responses to this evidence.Religious belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge.
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foreveryoung Member (Idle past 839 days) Posts: 921 Joined:
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Great, study. Reality though is that the Biblical Flood never happened, the Exodus never happened as described in the Bible, the Conquest of Canaan as described in Joshua is pure fiction... It is not a matter of hate as much as hilarity. So why did God write a book packed full of lies and why would you worship such a being?
Edited by Adminnemooseus, : Off-topic banner.
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Adminnemooseus Inactive Administrator
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So why did God write a book packed full of lies and why would you worship such a being? You should put together a little Proposed New Topic about the above. The quoted is actually a pretty good topic title. If approved, offhand I think it should go in the "Faith and Belief" forum. AdminnemooseusOr something like that.
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Adminnemooseus Inactive Administrator |
I had voted in message 2 to reject this topic. Admin thought otherwise.
Now, not that the debate is terrible, but we seem to be getting away from the theme of ark feasibility. Perhaps it was adequately covered early in the topic. Anyway, the side-theme(s) need to find a better home, maybe a new topic. I'm going to set "summation mode" to start at message 115. AdminnemooseusOr something like that. |
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