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Author Topic:   Post your short questions here. No need to start a thread everytime.
Admin
Director
Posts: 12998
From: EvC Forum
Joined: 06-14-2002
Member Rating: 2.3


Message 166 of 198 (328730)
07-04-2006 11:22 AM


General Reply
A couple miscellaneous points.
A thread in Coffee House about what's wrong with special education might be pretty interesting.
Concerning creationist moderators, I think the motivation for having creationist moderators is pretty clear - we want balance. I'm a staunch evolutionist and advocate of science, yet even I cringe at some of the more arrogant expressions in these areas. Even those who advocate clearly incorrect positions do not deserve ridicule or casual dismissal.
To say this another way, clearly some creationists have not thought through or studied the issues to any extent whatsoever, but that doesn't mean that all creationists have shallow views. Science is often thought of as a tightly woven fabric of mostly consistent evidence and theories, but the weave is tighter in some places than others. Many of the weaknesses that creationists think they perceive in science are a result of their own misunderstandings or mischaracterizations, but not all of them.
Evolutionist moderators tend to err too much on the side of evolutionary views. It is expected that creationist moderators will err too much on the side of creatinist views.
But while that addresses the perceived need for creationist moderators, it doesn't address the issue of why these particular creationist moderators: Buzsaw, Randman and Faith. (I don't count Phat because he has come over too far to the dark side. )
Like most things, there is no single answer, though I think all the answers are simple. First and foremost a creationist moderator must have sufficient interest. Evolutionists more often show a strong tendency to come here and stay here, while creationists much more often come for a while and then move on. Buzsaw, Randman and Faith have all demonstrated a strong resolve to stay here.
But the very excellent point that has been indirectly raised is that that alone should not qualify someone for admin status. There is such a thing as moderator temperament, and candidates for admin status should have moderator temperament. Though Buzsaw is often "out to sea" on some technical topics that he likes to participate in, I believe he does have the necessary moderator temperament, and I think he has already demonstrated that quality. He's neither the best nor the worst, but he also seems, in my judgment, to be steadily improving.
So why Randman and Faith? I think some of the speculation is accurate. Randman and Faith require significant amounts of moderator attention, and their persistent charges of unfairness when considered amidst their equally persistent name calling (idiots, liars, frauds, etc.) are nothing short of perplexing, and that understates how confusing their position is to everyone else by quite a bit. I find that in most cases of a difference of opinion that I can understand the other side's point, even if I don't agree with it, but that is rarely the case with Randman or Faith when they raise issues concerning moderation.
So part of the equation does include an element of hope that the moderator role will provide them insights that could affect their behavior for the better. This hope turned out to have been in vain in the case of Randman. I believe he gave it a very hard and sincere try, and I thank him for that. The blame for it not working out should be laid much more at my door than his, and I think most people do see it that way.
I see the moderator role as a journey and a challenge and a two-way road to learning. Speaking just for myself, and those who have been here a while know this is true, the moderator role has taught me much, both about myself and about other people. I feel and I hope that I am a better moderator now than I have ever been before , but this is a journey, and I hope I'm better next year than this year.
As with all moderators, my approach to moderation is a reflection of myself, and I am at heart a conciliator. I am not giving myself a compliment by saying this. Conciliation is not the answer to every dispute, and many is the time that I have been asked to get out of the way so that things could get settled, by Moose most recently (I forget which thread, could have been in the private forum, though).
But this implies that EvC Forum itself is also a reflection of who I am, and there are some aspects of EvC Forum for which this is true. I think the moderators would agree that I don't usually run this place like a dictator, but there are a few things about which I'm inflexible. Encouraging constructive discussion is one of the most important, and this means asking people to forsake any feelings of mistreatment or perceived animosities, even to the extent of sometimes asking for some significant turning-of-the-other-cheek.
Will Faith make a good moderator? I'm going to challenge Faith by saying that I agree with her that she will not make a good moderator, and I hope she proves us both wrong. Faith has energy only for what she is passionate about, so the risk is much more that she will be a relatively inactive moderator rather than a highly biased one. I believe she will only be successful if she can develop a passion for keeping evolutionists (and creationists, too) in line with regards to the Forum Guidelines. For that to happen she has to come to believe and accept that the better path to understanding is the calm exchange of ideas.
There's already been too much actual discussion in this "short query" thread. If someone wants to discuss this more then discussion should resume in the General discussion of moderation procedures - Part 7 thread.
Edited by Admin, : Fix word bumble.

--Percy
EvC Forum Director

Taz
Member (Idle past 3292 days)
Posts: 5069
From: Zerus
Joined: 07-18-2006


Message 167 of 198 (362055)
11-06-2006 12:36 AM


lazy writing....
has the issue of lazy writin come up befor.... cuz some peeple just dont seem too care enugh to type in the extra leter or put in the aproprat puntuaton makr or put in at leest an unce woth of extra efort to write coheran sentenses
i no that som admins hav problem wit posts dat aint ritten in paragraf foam.. but somtime other methods of poor writin styles are anoying to read to
for example there are at least a couple long term members here who write rarely with proper punctuation and almost never capitalization... whats wrogn with hitting the shift button or take the extra 2 secons to fix obvius spelling erors?
can anything be done?...

Place yourself on the map at http://www.frappr.com/evc
The thread about this map can be found here.

Replies to this message:
 Message 168 by nwr, posted 11-06-2006 12:58 AM Taz has not replied
 Message 169 by subbie, posted 11-06-2006 6:42 AM Taz has not replied
 Message 170 by AdminPD, posted 11-06-2006 7:30 AM Taz has replied

nwr
Member
Posts: 6408
From: Geneva, Illinois
Joined: 08-08-2005
Member Rating: 5.1


Message 168 of 198 (362064)
11-06-2006 12:58 AM
Reply to: Message 167 by Taz
11-06-2006 12:36 AM


Re: lazy writing....
A couple of members have made a considered decision to not capitalize.
I personally disagree with them. I have the strange idea that the purpose of posting messages is to communicate, and that adhering to standards, such as capitalization, significantly enhances communication.

Regime change in Washington - midterm elections, Nov 7

This message is a reply to:
 Message 167 by Taz, posted 11-06-2006 12:36 AM Taz has not replied

subbie
Member (Idle past 1255 days)
Posts: 3509
Joined: 02-26-2006


Message 169 of 198 (362090)
11-06-2006 6:42 AM
Reply to: Message 167 by Taz
11-06-2006 12:36 AM


Re: lazy writing....
Depends.
If it's a result of ignorance, and they choose to learn, teach them.
If it's a result of ignorance, and they choose not to learn, nothing.
If it's a conscious choice, nothing.

Those who would sacrifice an essential liberty for a temporary security will lose both, and deserve neither. -- Benjamin Franklin

This message is a reply to:
 Message 167 by Taz, posted 11-06-2006 12:36 AM Taz has not replied

AdminPD
Inactive Administrator


Message 170 of 198 (362102)
11-06-2006 7:30 AM
Reply to: Message 167 by Taz
11-06-2006 12:36 AM


Re: lazy writing....
Yes the issue has come up.
As NWR has commented, some have made the decision not to use capitalization.
Typos happen. When people are discussing in real time, they are in more of a conversational mode and don't always take the time to preview before posting.
Also when people type the way they talk, they don't always punctuate correctly. Sometimes its difficult.
There are members who are underage and not as skilled with writing and punctuation.
We also have members who are not typing in their native language. That also contributes to misspellings, improper punctuation, etc.
Sometimes people type under a time restraint. The possibility of mistakes increases.
The only time Admins step in to deal with style is when the grammar and spelling are so bad that the post can't be understood.
I suggest that if you feel the need to correct someone, be sensitive to what I have mentioned above.
Please don't make the assumption that the mistakes are laziness or lack of concern.
GENERAL NOTE: This thread is for questions, please don't turn it into a defense-of-the-way-we-write discussion. If anyone wants that, start another thread.
Edited by AdminPD, : NOTE
Edited by AdminPD, : NOTE

This message is a reply to:
 Message 167 by Taz, posted 11-06-2006 12:36 AM Taz has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 171 by Taz, posted 11-06-2006 1:02 PM AdminPD has replied

Taz
Member (Idle past 3292 days)
Posts: 5069
From: Zerus
Joined: 07-18-2006


Message 171 of 198 (362155)
11-06-2006 1:02 PM
Reply to: Message 170 by AdminPD
11-06-2006 7:30 AM


Re: lazy writing....
AdminPD writes:
Real time mode, talk-like writing, children language, ESL, auctioning, and others.
I wasn't referring to these people. som of da posts take eforts to make dem look bad
As NWR has commented, some have made the decision not to use capitalization.
Has there been an explanation given for this decision? Some kind of protest against formal English grammar?

Place yourself on the map at http://www.frappr.com/evc
The thread about this map can be found here.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 170 by AdminPD, posted 11-06-2006 7:30 AM AdminPD has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 172 by AdminPD, posted 11-06-2006 4:40 PM Taz has replied

AdminPD
Inactive Administrator


Message 172 of 198 (362192)
11-06-2006 4:40 PM
Reply to: Message 171 by Taz
11-06-2006 1:02 PM


Re: lazy writing....
quote:
I wasn't referring to these people. som of da posts take eforts to make dem look bad
According to you. I haven't actually run into that situation other than ones done in fun or the situations mentioned above. So unless you want to give links, there's not much else I can say.
I will give you a warning on quoting. If you are going to quote, please make sure you are actually quoting, not paraphrasing.
In quotes you have:
AdminPD writes:
Real time mode, talk-like writing, children language, ESL, auctioning, and others.
I did not write that line in Message 170. Please make sure when you say such and such writes that they actually did. Otherwise state that you are paraphrasing. I'm not sure what you mean by ESL or auctioning or others. Don't put words in my mouth please.
quote:
Has there been an explanation given for this decision?
Yes there has. You can use the search, I don't have time to look right now or if you really have to know, start a thread.
As I said earlier, this is a thread for short questions and this is going beyond short.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 171 by Taz, posted 11-06-2006 1:02 PM Taz has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 173 by Taz, posted 11-06-2006 5:43 PM AdminPD has replied

Taz
Member (Idle past 3292 days)
Posts: 5069
From: Zerus
Joined: 07-18-2006


Message 173 of 198 (362204)
11-06-2006 5:43 PM
Reply to: Message 172 by AdminPD
11-06-2006 4:40 PM


Re: lazy writing....
AdminPD writes:
I'm not sure what you mean by ESL or auctioning or others.
ESL = english as second language
auctioning = using a large number of words in a working time frame
others = stuff not specifically mentioned, like reason why people made conscious decisions...

This message is a reply to:
 Message 172 by AdminPD, posted 11-06-2006 4:40 PM AdminPD has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 174 by AdminPD, posted 11-07-2006 7:43 AM Taz has not replied

AdminPD
Inactive Administrator


Message 174 of 198 (362374)
11-07-2006 7:43 AM
Reply to: Message 173 by Taz
11-06-2006 5:43 PM


Re: lazy writing....
Here is the beginning of the discussion concerning the "shift key impaired" in the Style Guides for EvC thread.
It also covers misspellings. If you have more questions, you can take them to that thread and mind your quotes.

This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
 Message 175 by Phat, posted 11-07-2006 8:35 AM AdminPD has not replied

Phat
Member
Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 175 of 198 (362382)
11-07-2006 8:35 AM
Reply to: Message 174 by AdminPD
11-07-2006 7:43 AM


Re: lazy writing....
I do get annoyed by New York City Boys abbreviated style of writing, and personally will correct him on it from this day forward.
My perogative.
Any more thoughts on this subject should be taken to the thread Style Guides for EvC
AdminPD
Edited by AdminPD, : Warning

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Buzsaw
Inactive Member


Message 176 of 198 (364601)
11-18-2006 6:50 PM


Showcase Forum Question
My apologies if this has been answered, but who is authorized to reply to showcase messages?

Replies to this message:
 Message 177 by jar, posted 11-18-2006 6:56 PM Buzsaw has replied

jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 177 of 198 (364603)
11-18-2006 6:56 PM
Reply to: Message 176 by Buzsaw
11-18-2006 6:50 PM


Re: Showcase Forum Question
Only those who ask for permission the the Showcase Permission Request thread Message 1 and permission is granted.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 176 by Buzsaw, posted 11-18-2006 6:50 PM Buzsaw has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 178 by Buzsaw, posted 11-18-2006 7:12 PM jar has not replied

Buzsaw
Inactive Member


Message 178 of 198 (364607)
11-18-2006 7:12 PM
Reply to: Message 177 by jar
11-18-2006 6:56 PM


Re: Showcase Forum Question
Thanks Jar. Your on the spot responses to the needs for answers to these questions and other help you are so willing to extend is greatly appreciated. We disagree on a lot but EvC is fortunate for your presence.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 177 by jar, posted 11-18-2006 6:56 PM jar has not replied

Admin
Director
Posts: 12998
From: EvC Forum
Joined: 06-14-2002
Member Rating: 2.3


Message 179 of 198 (364704)
11-19-2006 9:54 AM


It might help if I mentioned that one of the reasons that access to [forum=-37] is by request only is to prevent pile-ons.

--Percy
EvC Forum Director

Brad McFall
Member (Idle past 5033 days)
Posts: 3428
From: Ithaca,NY, USA
Joined: 12-20-2001


Message 180 of 198 (367492)
12-02-2006 4:59 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by coffee_addict
01-18-2005 10:53 AM


short question.
Are we allowed to post to links and information? I got the warning about "hacking" which I have only seen before when I try to make too many changes to a post too fast, but this one occurred on my first send. I was trying to respond to Chirps post on Zimmers article.
Edited by Brad McFall, : ?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by coffee_addict, posted 01-18-2005 10:53 AM coffee_addict has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 181 by AdminModulous, posted 12-02-2006 5:20 PM Brad McFall has replied

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