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Author Topic:   animals on the ark
simple 
Inactive Suspended Member


Message 122 of 196 (306930)
04-27-2006 1:11 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by quicksink
03-05-2002 3:50 AM


I could. But I thought this was a science forum?

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freelancer
Inactive Member


Message 123 of 196 (313612)
05-19-2006 6:22 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by quicksink
03-05-2002 3:50 AM


I'll start all the way back at the beginning here

quote:
then they can tell us how the carnivores were fed

You forget that all carnvores are fuly capible of being sustained on herbivoric food.

quote:
how herbivores were fed (man that's a lot of food)

Man, that's a big Ark! The ark was 450 feet long, 75 feet wide, and 45 feet high. That's more then big enough for all the animals and their food.

quote:
how the boat stayed afloat in waters that could have overturned cruisse ships

I'll anwser that with a quote

quote:
The rectangular dimensions of the Ark show an advanced design in ship-building. Its length of six times its width and 10 times its height would have made it amazingly stable on the ocean. Remember it was made more for floating than sailing, because it wasn't headed anywhere. The famous rock formation near Mount Ararat that some think is Noah's Ark is almost certainly not! The Ark was made to withstand a turbulent ocean voyage, not to be at a certain place at a certain time.

quote:
and how insects, like the fig wasp, that live for 3 days and require the fig fruit of the fig tree to reproduce, survived

Do to have proof that the fig wasp in it's individual species, exhisted back during the flood?

quote:
how insects like fruit flies and mosquitos, that reproduce unimaginably quickly, were kept from being a monstrous pest

I do not have the anwser to that off the top of my head, however, the ark wasn't meant to be a pleasure cruse.

quote:
how Noah was able to repopulate the entire planet in 300 years

Who says he did?

quote:
how he was able to restore all cultures to their pre-flood state

There was only one culture before the flood - the Tower of Babel (post-flood) split the people into different languages and cultures.

quote:
how noah and other biblical figures were able to live for 100s of yearsa, despite the finding of the contrary after the examination of mummies)

Before the flood the earth was covered by a heavy water canopy (the waters of the heavens), this accounts for the fact that there was an equal, nearly tropical climate everywhere. Because of the canopy the O2 level in the air was much higher thus resulting in age increase and gigantism (the humble 18in Sloth used to be 16ft tall). When the canopy dissapered, the higher concintration of O2 left and age decreased. We know for a fact that there did use to be a much higher concintration of O2 because of air trapped in amber.

quote:
how noah was able to collect all the animals

Due to the all around equal climate there would have been no problem with having all different species of animals in one area. Besides, God made the animals, God can collect them.

quote:
how all the animals were able to move from turkey to australia, the americas, etc. without food (all vegetation would have been wiped out during the flood, and would have taken many years to regrow)...

The animals and Noah had to wait 6 months before they could leave tha Ark, that was by far enough time to let all the plants re-grow and vegitation to spread.

quote:
how marine mammals survived

Flood = water

quote:
how coral survived (coral core measuring goes well beyond the estimated time of the flood, about 4000 years ago)

Just because there was a flood doesn't mean there was rough seas. And besides, all coral can survive underwater.

quote:
how the americans and chinese and egyptians, not to mention their fabulous structures, survived...

I believe I alread anwsered that. Babel.


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Replies to this message:
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CK
Member (Idle past 2418 days)
Posts: 3221
Joined: 07-04-2004


Message 124 of 196 (313616)
05-19-2006 6:32 PM
Reply to: Message 123 by freelancer
05-19-2006 6:22 PM


let's start with the simple questions.
Let's start with the most basic low-level questions:

How do they shove all the shit that the animals generated?

What about silkworms? (only eat mulberry leaves)

What about Koalas? (only eat eucalyptus leaves)

How was food stored with out it spoiling?

How did the animals get exercise?

How did such a small crew feed so many animals? (if the food is stored in container - that increases the time it takes to get it and put it out)

quote:
how marine mammals survived

Flood = water


BUZZZZ - nope - many marine animals require a certain temperature, other require (or conversely don't like)fresh water.

quote:
Man, that's a big Ark! The ark was 450 feet long, 75 feet wide, and 45 feet high. That's more then big enough for all the animals and their food.

It had three levels didn't it? so that's about 15 feet per level, so when you take into account the beams to support the structure - that's ??? 12??? 13??? feet?

How did Giraffes and dinosaurs* get in there?

* It's a common creationist claim that dinosaurs lived with man.

Edited by CK, : fishy fishy.

Edited by CK, : add dimensions of the ark

Edited by CK, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 123 by freelancer, posted 05-19-2006 6:22 PM freelancer has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 125 by freelancer, posted 05-19-2006 6:49 PM CK has responded
 Message 127 by freelancer, posted 05-19-2006 6:59 PM CK has responded

  
freelancer
Inactive Member


Message 125 of 196 (313621)
05-19-2006 6:49 PM
Reply to: Message 124 by CK
05-19-2006 6:32 PM


Re: let's start with the simple questions.
quote:
What about silkworms? (only eat mulberry leaves)

All the animals were brought aboard according to their kind. The word kind in that case basically means genus. So, the silkworms themselves wouldn't have been brought aboard, but ancestors and members of genus Bombyx would have been. It's called micro-evolution.

quote:
What about Koalas? (only eat eucalyptus leaves)

Sames as before. (But Koalas can eat more then eucalyptus leaves.)

quote:
How was food stored with out it spoiling?

If stored properly most natural foods can last for a very long time without rotting

quote:
How did the animals get exercise?

The animals would have only taken up about 29-30% of the ark, plenty of room for exserise.

quote:
How did such a small crew feet so many animals? (if the food is stored in container - that increases the time it takes to get it and put it out)

The ark didn't need to be directed, thus the people could have put their full work into keeping the animals. 8 people actually is a fairly decent sized crew to take care of what was specuated to be about 2,000 individual animals.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 124 by CK, posted 05-19-2006 6:32 PM CK has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 126 by CK, posted 05-19-2006 6:56 PM freelancer has responded

  
CK
Member (Idle past 2418 days)
Posts: 3221
Joined: 07-04-2004


Message 126 of 196 (313622)
05-19-2006 6:56 PM
Reply to: Message 125 by freelancer
05-19-2006 6:49 PM


Re: let's start with the simple questions.
8 people to take care of 2000* animals? is that a joke?

I'm from a farming community and done my share of mucking out and I'm afraid that's bull, it is no way shape true that

quote:
8 people actually is a fairly decent sized crew
. That's just rubbish. Even with modern technology and space - trying to care for the needs of so many "kinds" with their differing needs? Have you REALLY thought about what that would take?

As mentioned earlier in the thread:

quote:
The Philadelphia ZOO employs about 400 people FULL TIME, and there are about 1800 animals housed at this ZOO.

And they had time to walk them? and they had time to muck out? and they had time to take care of sickness? and they had time to trim the hooves and like of many of the animals? and they had time to SLEEP? and they had time to EAT?

* where do you get your 2000 animal figure from? that's much lower than I've seen before from a creationist.

Edited by CK, : typos.


This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
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freelancer
Inactive Member


Message 127 of 196 (313623)
05-19-2006 6:59 PM
Reply to: Message 124 by CK
05-19-2006 6:32 PM


Re: let's start with the simple questions.
quote:
BUZZZZ - nope - many marine animals require a certain temperature, other require (or conversely don't like)fresh water.

Look closly, it says Mammals

quote:
It had three levels didn't it? so that's about 15 feet per level, so when you take into account the beams to support the structure - that's ??? 12??? 13??? feet?

What gave you the idea that the ark had three levels? That's not in the Bible and it's not true. I don't know for sure but I bet it only had one.

quote:
How did Giraffes and dinosaurs* get in there?

* It's a common creationist claim that dinosaurs lived with man.


dinosaurs and man did exhist together. Why else do you think we find paintings of dinosaurs on cave walls? What do you think this is a picture of? http://www.biblelandstudios.com/nuke/images/upload/c1.gif

But, in order for dinosaurs to get on the ark (giraffes are no problem - they aren't 45 ft tall) you only have to bring on babies. The big dinosaurs were old ones, you can find many fosils of young small dinosaurs that eavily could have fit in the ark.


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Replies to this message:
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jar
Member
Posts: 31518
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 3.0


Message 128 of 196 (313626)
05-19-2006 7:09 PM
Reply to: Message 127 by freelancer
05-19-2006 6:59 PM


Absolutey too funny.
Thank you freelancer. We have not had that come up in years. You just made our day.

freelander writes:

dinosaurs and man did exhist together. Why else do you think we find paintings of dinosaurs on cave walls? What do you think this is a picture of? http://www.biblelandstudios.com/nuke/images/upload/c1.gif

Now we know that NOTHING from Biblelandstudios.com is worth paying attention too.

I'll check to see what other gems biblelandstudios has for us.

Edited by jar, : fix name of really funny link


Aslan is not a Tame Lion

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CK
Member (Idle past 2418 days)
Posts: 3221
Joined: 07-04-2004


Message 129 of 196 (313629)
05-19-2006 7:13 PM
Reply to: Message 127 by freelancer
05-19-2006 6:59 PM


Re: let's start with the simple questions.
quote:
What gave you the idea that the ark had three levels? That's not in the Bible and it's not true. I don't know for sure but I bet it only had one.

*Blink* Did you really just say that? Do you want to stick with that as an answer - the ark has one level?

It was just one big space within it's hull? Is that what you are saying?

As for the "dino" picture - LOOK at it - really LOOK at it - don't you see a problem?

Edited by CK, : Dino time!


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Coragyps
Member
Posts: 5399
From: Snyder, Texas, USA
Joined: 11-12-2002


Message 130 of 196 (313631)
05-19-2006 7:17 PM
Reply to: Message 123 by freelancer
05-19-2006 6:22 PM


Oh, deary me. Freelancer, have you even bothered to read beyond the first page of this thread?

I thought not.

Your "points" have already been answered. Demolished, to be more precise. We can do it again, if you really want to, but it would sure be cute if you could try to come up with something new.


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Coragyps
Member
Posts: 5399
From: Snyder, Texas, USA
Joined: 11-12-2002


Message 131 of 196 (313632)
05-19-2006 7:21 PM
Reply to: Message 127 by freelancer
05-19-2006 6:59 PM


Re: let's start with the simple questions.
What gave you the idea that the ark had three levels? That's not in the Bible and it's not true

And you haven't read your own book either?


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anglagard
Member
Posts: 2200
From: Socorro, New Mexico USA
Joined: 03-18-2006


Message 132 of 196 (313647)
05-19-2006 7:37 PM
Reply to: Message 123 by freelancer
05-19-2006 6:22 PM


The ark was 450 feet long, 75 feet wide, and 45 feet high. That's more then big enough for all the animals and their food.

Obviously not, however:

I guess it may be large enough to store viable populations of all single-celled organisms, which after the flood could have evolved from their "kinds" into the diverse fauna we see today.

Kind of a post-flood micro-macro evolution.


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freelancer
Inactive Member


Message 133 of 196 (313688)
05-19-2006 8:32 PM
Reply to: Message 126 by CK
05-19-2006 6:56 PM


Re: let's start with the simple questions.
quote:
As mentioned earlier in the thread:

quote:The Philadelphia ZOO employs about 400 people FULL TIME, and there are about 1800 animals housed at this ZOO.


400 people. Don't forget that those 400 people include, cashiers, security officers, garbage colectors, janitors, managers, gift shop workers and vendors. If you divide everyone up you'll find that the people who actually work with the animals are much fewer then you thought. Possibly as low as 20.

And those 20 people don't live there and work normal, eight-hour shifts. Noah worked longer then eight hours a day, I can tell you that.

quote:
I'm from a farming community and done my share of mucking out and I'm afraid that's bull

You live in a farming community, ovbiously you don't live on a farm. 2 animals (2 of each kind) is not too much work. feeding/ caring for 2 animals would only take about 10 minutes. x8 people you get 16 animals every 10 minutes.

That's 2000 every 20 or so hours.

But, you also have to factor in the fact that many animals can go into hibernation and stay there for a good period of time. If even a quarter of the animals did that you would have a much easier job.


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anglagard
Member
Posts: 2200
From: Socorro, New Mexico USA
Joined: 03-18-2006


Message 134 of 196 (313696)
05-19-2006 8:45 PM
Reply to: Message 127 by freelancer
05-19-2006 6:59 PM


Re: let's start with the simple questions.
What do you think this is a picture of? http://www.biblelandstudios.com/nuke/images/upload/c1.gif

The picture is from a joke website called Onyate Man perpetrated, I beleieve, by members of the New Mexicans for Science and Reason. Dave Thomas, the president, may be seen? as the individual on the left side of the third picture on the Onyate Man hoax (or is it satire?) website. He is a prominent figure on Panda's Thumb and while an aquaintance to me is a close friend of many of my friends (meaning he is a lot more real than this hoax).

{ABE - thanks to Jar for letting me know about the Onyate Man website in chat}

BTW, where did you get this picture from? I am curious.

Edited by anglagard, : Appropriate credit

Edited by anglagard, : more credit.


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NosyNed
Member
Posts: 8863
From: Canada
Joined: 04-04-2003
Member Rating: 5.3


Message 135 of 196 (313731)
05-19-2006 10:05 PM
Reply to: Message 133 by freelancer
05-19-2006 8:32 PM


Number of keepers
Since you're making wild assed guesses as to the workers needed we still havn't a good idea of what is needed.

I'm pretty sure your estimates are, deliberately, shooting low. How's this for a high one (NOTE -- I agree that it is too high). The Anchorage zoo has 3 keepers dedicated to the care, companionship and training of ONE elephant.


This message is a reply to:
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Coragyps
Member
Posts: 5399
From: Snyder, Texas, USA
Joined: 11-12-2002


Message 136 of 196 (313745)
05-19-2006 10:38 PM
Reply to: Message 134 by anglagard
05-19-2006 8:45 PM


Re: let's start with the simple questions.
on the Onyate Man hoax (or is it satire?) website

It was an April Fool's joke, as I remember. Sucked in several creationist websites, even with "Pilar Pendeja" as a digger. 'Course, you need a bit of MexiSpanish to know that last name is a naughty word.


This message is a reply to:
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