Register | Sign In


Understanding through Discussion


EvC Forum active members: 65 (9162 total)
3 online now:
Newest Member: popoi
Post Volume: Total: 915,817 Year: 3,074/9,624 Month: 919/1,588 Week: 102/223 Day: 0/13 Hour: 0/0


Thread  Details

Email This Thread
Newer Topic | Older Topic
  
Author Topic:   Lucy and Secular Humanism
anthro4n6
Inactive Member


Message 16 of 64 (179937)
01-23-2005 1:14 PM
Reply to: Message 15 by AdminAsgara
01-23-2005 1:09 PM


Re: Lucy Pelvis Image
Thanks, AdminAsgara, for such a quick response.... amazingly quick.
And thanks for the link and the comments

This message is a reply to:
 Message 15 by AdminAsgara, posted 01-23-2005 1:09 PM AdminAsgara has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 18 by AdminAsgara, posted 01-23-2005 1:41 PM anthro4n6 has not replied

AdminAsgara
Administrator (Idle past 2303 days)
Posts: 2073
From: The Universe
Joined: 10-11-2003


Message 17 of 64 (179939)
01-23-2005 1:17 PM


To All Members
We are all guilty of this at one time or another but deep linking to an image on another's website is NOT good netiquette. Linking directly to another's site wastes their bandwidth.
For now, I suggest that the use of a web image be saved to your own computer and an image hosting site such as ImageShack - Best place for all of your image hosting and image sharing needs be used to host the picture.
Attribution always needs to be given to the original site the picture was found. When in doubt, contact the site for permission to use their image.
This message has been edited by AdminAsgara, 01-23-2005 12:18 AM

AdminAsgara Queen of the Universe

http://asgarasworld.bravepages.com http://perditionsgate.bravepages.com

Replies to this message:
 Message 28 by Chiroptera, posted 06-15-2005 4:16 PM AdminAsgara has not replied

AdminAsgara
Administrator (Idle past 2303 days)
Posts: 2073
From: The Universe
Joined: 10-11-2003


Message 18 of 64 (179945)
01-23-2005 1:41 PM
Reply to: Message 16 by anthro4n6
01-23-2005 1:14 PM


Re: Lucy Pelvis Image
No problem Terri. I hope that now that you have found our little corner of the universe you will stick around and contribute. Your take on Lucy's anatomy would be welcome.

AdminAsgara Queen of the Universe

http://asgarasworld.bravepages.com http://perditionsgate.bravepages.com

This message is a reply to:
 Message 16 by anthro4n6, posted 01-23-2005 1:14 PM anthro4n6 has not replied

arachnophilia
Member (Idle past 1344 days)
Posts: 9069
From: god's waiting room
Joined: 05-21-2004


Message 19 of 64 (180093)
01-24-2005 1:44 AM
Reply to: Message 14 by anthro4n6
01-23-2005 12:28 PM


Re: Lucy Pelvis Image
Arachnophilia, please remove the image that draws bandwidth from my website. You may download the image from my site to your own computer and then upload it to your own server. Please then credit my website. But please be courteous by not using up my bandwidth... I pay for it!
sorry about that. looks like the queen fixed it already.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 14 by anthro4n6, posted 01-23-2005 12:28 PM anthro4n6 has not replied

randman 
Suspended Member (Idle past 4899 days)
Posts: 6367
Joined: 05-26-2005


Message 20 of 64 (217015)
06-15-2005 1:20 AM
Reply to: Message 11 by johnfolton
01-21-2005 11:25 PM


Re:
Tom, haven't read the whole thread, but evolutionists are loathe to give up the right to use false and misleading artistic renderings to convince the public to believe.
It's all about teaching the end conclusion, for them, so hey, if they fabricate some, they see it is as no big deal for the most part.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 11 by johnfolton, posted 01-21-2005 11:25 PM johnfolton has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 21 by AdminNosy, posted 06-15-2005 1:36 AM randman has replied

AdminNosy
Administrator
Posts: 4754
From: Vancouver, BC, Canada
Joined: 11-11-2003


Message 21 of 64 (217021)
06-15-2005 1:36 AM
Reply to: Message 20 by randman
06-15-2005 1:20 AM


accusations
Tom, haven't read the whole thread, but evolutionists are loathe to give up the right to use false and misleading artistic renderings to convince the public to believe.
It's all about teaching the end conclusion, for them, so hey, if they fabricate some, they see it is as no big deal for the most part.
Such accusations have to be very well backed up if made.
You may start by describing exactly what is false and how. References to false material will be n eeded.
You will do this or retract it or end up with a suspention.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 20 by randman, posted 06-15-2005 1:20 AM randman has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 22 by randman, posted 06-15-2005 1:42 AM AdminNosy has not replied

randman 
Suspended Member (Idle past 4899 days)
Posts: 6367
Joined: 05-26-2005


Message 22 of 64 (217024)
06-15-2005 1:42 AM
Reply to: Message 21 by AdminNosy
06-15-2005 1:36 AM


Re: accusations
You really want me to track down false uses of images and post them?
How about the use of Haeckel's drawings on the thread you brought up the same issue, and I backed it up with specifics. That's one.
Showing Lucy with excessively human-like hands, as mentioned in the OP, that's another.
Showing Neanderthal as ape-like is another. Not all evolutionists do this anymore, thankfully, but it was done for awhile, and I suspect you can still find such false images. I will do a google search with faith that they will be there. When I was shown such false images of an ape-like creature, the internet was not around so we'll see.
Yep, just typed in Neanderthal images, and up they came.
Neanderthal images - Google Search
Is this good enough? Those are 3 solid examples of evolutionists using images to mislead the public, imo.
This link summarizes my feelings. We were all shown the ape to man transition, led to believe Neanderthal was ape-like, that Cro-Magnon was somehow slightly less than normal human, and that apes like Ramapithecus were genuinely more humanoid than they were.
http://www.cryingvoice.com/Evolution/ApeMen1.html
This message has been edited by randman, 06-15-2005 01:44 AM
This message has been edited by randman, 06-15-2005 02:04 AM

This message is a reply to:
 Message 21 by AdminNosy, posted 06-15-2005 1:36 AM AdminNosy has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 23 by PaulK, posted 06-15-2005 2:06 AM randman has replied
 Message 49 by NosyNed, posted 06-19-2005 9:37 PM randman has not replied

PaulK
Member
Posts: 17822
Joined: 01-10-2003
Member Rating: 2.2


Message 23 of 64 (217028)
06-15-2005 2:06 AM
Reply to: Message 22 by randman
06-15-2005 1:42 AM


Re: accusations
quote:
Is this good enough? Those are 3 solid examples of evolutionists using images to mislead the public, imo.
The first image is from a French page on ebusiness.
The second is from an Italian company selling miniature figures (it is one of their figures, painted)
The third is a cover to the magazine "Creepy" drawn by Frank Frazetta.
So taken in context NONE of them is a solid example of evolutionists using images to mislead the public.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 22 by randman, posted 06-15-2005 1:42 AM randman has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 24 by randman, posted 06-15-2005 2:32 AM PaulK has replied

randman 
Suspended Member (Idle past 4899 days)
Posts: 6367
Joined: 05-26-2005


Message 24 of 64 (217037)
06-15-2005 2:32 AM
Reply to: Message 23 by PaulK
06-15-2005 2:06 AM


Re: accusations
PaulK, are you denying that evolutionists for a very long time presented Neanderthal as sub-human?
I remember textbooks in the 70s showing Neanderthals as ape-like creatures, as sub-human. If you are to be honest, you should admit the same.
http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/homs/bvl07.jpg
http://www.cartage.org.lb/en/themes/Sciences/LifeScience/...
{Shortened display form of URL, to restore page width to normal. - Adminnemooseus}
This message has been edited by Adminnemooseus, 06-15-2005 04:47 PM

This message is a reply to:
 Message 23 by PaulK, posted 06-15-2005 2:06 AM PaulK has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 25 by PaulK, posted 06-15-2005 2:58 AM randman has not replied
 Message 26 by Andya Primanda, posted 06-15-2005 7:25 AM randman has not replied
 Message 29 by AdminNosy, posted 06-15-2005 5:58 PM randman has replied

PaulK
Member
Posts: 17822
Joined: 01-10-2003
Member Rating: 2.2


Message 25 of 64 (217040)
06-15-2005 2:58 AM
Reply to: Message 24 by randman
06-15-2005 2:32 AM


Re: accusations
quote:
PaulK, are you denying that evolutionists for a very long time presented Neanderthal as sub-human?
Having read my post, you must know that I neither said nor implied any such thing . All I did was look at the images you referred to in context - and concluded that none of them in that context could be regarded as an attempt by evolutionists to decieve the public. Even though you touted all three as "solid" examples of that very thing. A point that you choose not to answer insted asking if I said something completely different.
I furhter add that even if I concede the point it would not demonstrate that there was any attempt by evolutionists to decieve. Indeed who, if not the evolutionists, has been behind the shift to more human and less ape-like images of neandertals ?
If you are ho9nest then how do you eplain the nature of your reply ?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 24 by randman, posted 06-15-2005 2:32 AM randman has not replied

Andya Primanda
Inactive Member


Message 26 of 64 (217055)
06-15-2005 7:25 AM
Reply to: Message 24 by randman
06-15-2005 2:32 AM


Re: accusations
Randman, it is true that in the past people had portayed Neanderthals as apelike. However, the trend nowadays is a human portrayal, like this, the reconstruction of the Gibraltar Neanderthal child:

This message is a reply to:
 Message 24 by randman, posted 06-15-2005 2:32 AM randman has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 27 by Dr Jack, posted 06-15-2005 7:45 AM Andya Primanda has not replied

Dr Jack
Member
Posts: 3514
From: Immigrant in the land of Deutsch
Joined: 07-14-2003
Member Rating: 8.7


Message 27 of 64 (217059)
06-15-2005 7:45 AM
Reply to: Message 26 by Andya Primanda
06-15-2005 7:25 AM


Re: accusations
What is worth noting is where the dividing line falls between derived data and subjective guesswork. You'll note that on both the more recent picture posted above and on the earlier "ape-like" reconstructions the nose is wide. Why? Because the shape of the nose can be derived from the bones. As can the shape of the skull and jaw, the body shape, the posture, the layout of the muscles and the likely movements of the body.
Unfortunately neither hair nor skin survive to give us those surface features on which we overly fixate. Were Neanderthals hairy or smooth skinned? Dark or pale? Did their eyes have the same range of colours as ours?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 26 by Andya Primanda, posted 06-15-2005 7:25 AM Andya Primanda has not replied

Chiroptera
Inactive Member


Message 28 of 64 (217223)
06-15-2005 4:16 PM
Reply to: Message 17 by AdminAsgara
01-23-2005 1:17 PM


Re: To All Members
Might I suggest that a paragraph explaining how to properly display images be put someplace easy-to-find? Maybe where the UBB code for displaying images is explained, unless someone can think of a more appropriate place. I'm just worried that I'm not going to remember "imageshack". It will also be handy for a regular place for this information in case someone decides there is a better way to do this.
Edited to add:
Or Forum Guidelines would be a good place to put this, too!
This message has been edited by Chiroptera, 15-Jun-2005 08:34 PM

This message is a reply to:
 Message 17 by AdminAsgara, posted 01-23-2005 1:17 PM AdminAsgara has not replied

AdminNosy
Administrator
Posts: 4754
From: Vancouver, BC, Canada
Joined: 11-11-2003


Message 29 of 64 (217239)
06-15-2005 5:58 PM
Reply to: Message 24 by randman
06-15-2005 2:32 AM


Re: accusations
Randman, you gave 3 "solid" examples earlier. They now seem to be less than solid. Have you agreed that you errored there?
Now you hvae supplied two additional links.
In what why do they support your accusations? Remember you are not accusing someone of error but of fraud.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 24 by randman, posted 06-15-2005 2:32 AM randman has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 30 by randman, posted 06-16-2005 2:18 AM AdminNosy has not replied
 Message 31 by randman, posted 06-16-2005 2:24 AM AdminNosy has replied

randman 
Suspended Member (Idle past 4899 days)
Posts: 6367
Joined: 05-26-2005


Message 30 of 64 (217301)
06-16-2005 2:18 AM
Reply to: Message 29 by AdminNosy
06-15-2005 5:58 PM


Re: accusations
The examples I gave were true, but I did not check the images closely. But the images are evidence of the examples, and I think anyone who has followed this for a long time knows full well it has only been fairly recently that Neanderthal has been presented graphically as a normal human being.
Are you claiming that is not the case?
I substituted some other links, but considering the internet is not where most of us were first presented this data, it's not the best source.
I did note there was no link attached to the graphic of girl Neanderthal. I recently saw that same depiction on a site showing other, very different and fairly recent depictions of Neanderthal.
So my examples of false use of images remain:
Haeckel's drawings (still used today sometimes as shown here even on a link on another thread)
Depicting Neanderthal as ape-like, often with the ape-to-man transition, implying Neanderthal was some sort of "missing link", which totally misrepresents the fact Neaderthals were just a tribe of people.
And showing Lucy with excessively human-like hands, as mentioned in the OP.
As far as claiming that is fraud, that's a stretch. False use, sure, but fraud is crime, and I don't know if you can make that case or not.
Is it wrong? I think it is. Is it a crime? I suspect it probably is not and have obviously not made that claim, despite you trying to bait me with that insinuation.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 29 by AdminNosy, posted 06-15-2005 5:58 PM AdminNosy has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 32 by PaulK, posted 06-16-2005 3:33 AM randman has replied

Newer Topic | Older Topic
Jump to:


Copyright 2001-2023 by EvC Forum, All Rights Reserved

™ Version 4.2
Innovative software from Qwixotic © 2024