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Author Topic:   Simultaneous appearance of written language and common man
Coyote
Member (Idle past 2133 days)
Posts: 6117
Joined: 01-12-2008


Message 25 of 86 (492644)
01-01-2009 11:54 PM
Reply to: Message 23 by Peg
01-01-2009 11:32 PM


Re: Look! Up in the Sky. It's a Bird. It's a Plane. It's a Rather Simple Point.
how did they date things before carbon dating was invented?
Poorly.
not if carbon dating is flawed to begin with
It is not.
There is a thread that has been dusted off just for you to discuss your problems with C14 dating. Several of us have posted good information there for your perusal. See you there?

Religious belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 23 by Peg, posted 01-01-2009 11:32 PM Peg has not replied

  
Coyote
Member (Idle past 2133 days)
Posts: 6117
Joined: 01-12-2008


Message 40 of 86 (492719)
01-02-2009 11:59 AM
Reply to: Message 33 by Peg
01-02-2009 5:10 AM


Re: Exact Year
the flood - 2370 B.C.E
Great, archaeologists can now look at soils of this precise age and find evidence of the flood!
Problem is, we've done that. There is no such evidence. Instead we have a continuous record of soil development in many areas that precludes such a flood. (In a few areas soil of that age has been completely removed or modified by erosion.)
We also have a fine record of continuity of fauna and flora, human cultures, and human DNA from before to after your date. There is no interruption, such as would be caused by a flood, with subsequent replacement of other fauna and flora, human cultures, and human DNA. Rather there is continuity as if the flood never happened.
Hmmmmm.

Religious belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 33 by Peg, posted 01-02-2009 5:10 AM Peg has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 41 by petrophysics1, posted 01-02-2009 1:32 PM Coyote has replied

  
Coyote
Member (Idle past 2133 days)
Posts: 6117
Joined: 01-12-2008


Message 42 of 86 (492729)
01-02-2009 1:45 PM
Reply to: Message 41 by petrophysics1
01-02-2009 1:32 PM


Re: Exact Year
Peg likes having the Sumerians with the first written language at 3000 BCE(I think we will find the Chinese had it first). I'd like to ask you how a date like that is determined. I could be wrong, but it is my understanding a date like that is determined using stratigraphy, sedimentation, and radiocarbon dating.
If that is true I'm trying to figure out how Peg can accept a date for language tablets from Sumeria when the same three methods show there was no flood and therefore are "unreliable". Eg,they must be wrong for one but right for another.
I'm not an expert in that field, my area is the western US.
But, dating of tablets can be done in two ways: 1) from dates contained within the tablets, and 2) from the context in which the tablets was acquired. They may also be able to do thermoluminescence or other dating on the tablets themselves.
But you are correct, the objections to and disbelief of inconvenient bits of science is a characteristic of creation "science" rather than real science.

Religious belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 41 by petrophysics1, posted 01-02-2009 1:32 PM petrophysics1 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 44 by petrophysics1, posted 01-02-2009 1:55 PM Coyote has replied
 Message 61 by Brian, posted 01-03-2009 7:15 AM Coyote has not replied

  
Coyote
Member (Idle past 2133 days)
Posts: 6117
Joined: 01-12-2008


Message 45 of 86 (492736)
01-02-2009 2:00 PM
Reply to: Message 44 by petrophysics1
01-02-2009 1:55 PM


Re: Exact Year
The context you are refering to is the tablets position in a dig, is that correct? Which would mean you take into account the sedimentation and very small scale stratigraphy at the dig.
So if a tablet is found below some organic material dated at 2800 BCE it should be older than that taking into account any sedimentation disturbances or evidence of earlier digging?
Right, in excavations stratigraphic position is important. Once you date the layers you can do quite a bit of relative dating from position alone.
But in some cases you get a single-component site with everything from a narrow time period. Grave lots are an extreme example of this. Ghost towns in the American west are another example: everything started and ended in a relatively short time. This lets you get relative dates on both the individual items and the assemblages of items. That information can then be extrapolated to more complex or more disturbed sites.
I assume they are using all of these methods in the Near East.

Religious belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 44 by petrophysics1, posted 01-02-2009 1:55 PM petrophysics1 has not replied

  
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