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Author Topic:   THE END OF EVOLUTION?
Theodoric
Member
Posts: 9373
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 2.7


Message 37 of 284 (502946)
03-14-2009 12:22 PM
Reply to: Message 33 by LucyTheApe
03-13-2009 9:18 PM


Re: 2ndLOT
I have had to post about this so many times I guess I should just have a blanket response.
I am going to cut and paste from one website, because it has a much better response than I can give. I will then post other links. Read them. Then think about sand dunes, snowflakes and then come back and tell us if you still think it has anything to do with evolution.
First
Systems or processes left to themselves invariably tend to move from order to disorder.
Source:
Wallace, Timothy, 2002. Five major evolutionist misconceptions about evolution. http://www.trueorigins.org/isakrbtl.asp
Response:
1. This is an attempt to claim that the second law of thermodynamics implies an inevitable increase in entropy even in open systems by quibbling with the verbiage "left to themselves." The simple fact is that, unless "left to themselves" means "not acted upon by any outside influence," disorder of systems can decrease. And since outside influence is more often the rule in biological systems, order can and does increase in them.
2. That the claim is false is not theory. Exceptions happens all the time. For example, plants around my house are left to themselves every spring, and every spring they produce order locally by turning carbon from the air into plant tissue. Drying mud, left to itself, produces orderly cracks. Ice crystals, left to themselves, produce arrangements far more orderly than they would if I interfered. Freeze-thaw cycles naturally sort stones into regular patterns (Kessler and Werner 2003). How can a trend to disorder be invariable when exceptions are ubiquitous? And why do creationists argue at such length for claims that they themselves can plainly see are false?
3. Disorder and entropy are not the same. The second law of thermodynamics deals with entropy, not disorder (although disorder defined to apply to microscopic states can be relevant to thermodynamics). There are no laws about disorder as people normally use the word. (Styer 2000)
References:
1. Kessler, M. A. and B. T. Werner, 2003. Self-organization of sorted patterned ground. Science 299: 380-383. See also: Mann, D., 2003. On patterend ground. Science 299: 354-355.
2. Styer, Daniel F. 2000. Insight into entropy. American Journal of Physics 68(12): 1090-1096.
For more explanations debunking your whole line of thought see Here, Here and Here
Edited by Theodoric, : Spelling, made more readable

Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts

This message is a reply to:
 Message 33 by LucyTheApe, posted 03-13-2009 9:18 PM LucyTheApe has not replied

  
Theodoric
Member
Posts: 9373
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 2.7


Message 60 of 284 (503706)
03-21-2009 9:43 AM
Reply to: Message 48 by LucyTheApe
03-20-2009 10:01 PM


I'm trying to apply the 2nd law to the human genome.
How many times must you be shown that that the 2nd law has no bearing on the human genome, evolution or the outcome of the NCAA basketball playoffs. For starters the human genome is not a closed system.
This is like hitting my head against the wall. Do you read anything people post? Do you follow any of the links written by people much smarter than you or I?
If you have issues with what is said at talkorigins, then show how it is wrong and how your definition, which goes against ALL previous understanding of the laws of thermodynamics, is correct.
If you can't then drop this assinine assertions that the 2ndLOT has anything to do with evolution.

Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts

This message is a reply to:
 Message 48 by LucyTheApe, posted 03-20-2009 10:01 PM LucyTheApe has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 63 by Coyote, posted 03-23-2009 9:11 PM Theodoric has not replied

  
Theodoric
Member
Posts: 9373
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 2.7


Message 70 of 284 (504338)
03-27-2009 9:34 AM
Reply to: Message 67 by LucyTheApe
03-27-2009 6:37 AM


Re: 2LoD
Theodoric writes:
How many times must you be shown that that the 2nd law has no bearing on the human genome
LucyTheApe writes:
Laws affect everything.
You keep on making these big sweeping statements, but still have provided nothing to back them up. I really want to know the mechanism, and the how, that 2LOT effects evolution. Details please, not just dogmatic statements.

Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts

This message is a reply to:
 Message 67 by LucyTheApe, posted 03-27-2009 6:37 AM LucyTheApe has not replied

  
Theodoric
Member
Posts: 9373
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 2.7


Message 270 of 284 (507768)
05-07-2009 10:52 PM
Reply to: Message 266 by Trev777
05-07-2009 5:08 PM


Re: Quantum Gap
No more than the respect you give people that do not believe in the mumbo-jumbo you believe in.
Blasphemy is only blasphemy if the person doing it believes in the particular mumbo-jumbo. If they do not nbelieve it isn't blasphemy because it isn't real.

Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts

This message is a reply to:
 Message 266 by Trev777, posted 05-07-2009 5:08 PM Trev777 has not replied

  
Theodoric
Member
Posts: 9373
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 2.7


Message 276 of 284 (507872)
05-08-2009 3:19 PM
Reply to: Message 275 by lyx2no
05-08-2009 12:51 PM


Re: Quantum Gap
quote:
a none member of a group can not commit blasphemy against that group's beliefs any more then a Rwandan can not be treasonous to Andorra.
But in their minds we really do believe what they believe but are just evil people.

Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts

This message is a reply to:
 Message 275 by lyx2no, posted 05-08-2009 12:51 PM lyx2no has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 277 by bluescat48, posted 05-08-2009 4:29 PM Theodoric has not replied

  
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