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Author Topic:   THE END OF EVOLUTION?
onifre
Member (Idle past 3068 days)
Posts: 4854
From: Dark Side of the Moon
Joined: 02-20-2008


Message 18 of 284 (491757)
12-20-2008 5:58 PM
Reply to: Message 15 by LucyTheApe
12-20-2008 5:01 PM


Re: Evolution ended? Not!
There is no such thing as a closed system. And there is no requirement that a system be closed to reach equilibrium. ALL systems reach equilibrium. That's a law of nature.
Systems can vary in closure. However, this was the point, there are no closed systems where equilibrium would be reached and stablized. Take the universe as an example. It is said to be in equilibrium now, but due to the current expansion this equilibrium will not stay. So to will most systems who reach equilibrium not stay in equilibrium.
Evolution MUST reach equilibrium at some point.
You keep saying this and have been ask to elaborate on it. Can you explain what in evolution will reach equilibrium...?
And why would it stay stable in an ever changing planet...?

"All great truths begin as blasphemies"
"I smoke pot. If this bothers anyone, I suggest you look around at the world in which we live and shut your mouth."--Bill Hicks
"I never knew there was another option other than to question everything"--Noam Chomsky

This message is a reply to:
 Message 15 by LucyTheApe, posted 12-20-2008 5:01 PM LucyTheApe has not replied

  
onifre
Member (Idle past 3068 days)
Posts: 4854
From: Dark Side of the Moon
Joined: 02-20-2008


Message 137 of 284 (505804)
04-17-2009 2:00 PM
Reply to: Message 136 by LucyTheApe
04-17-2009 12:47 PM


Re: Evolution is a fraud
With our understanding now of the cell
There is a problem with "our understanding of the cell".
It seems like it is your understanding of the cell that leads you to believe that: "it's like a cool breeze rolled over the plains and produced a self replicating Boeing factory, complete with all it's parts and every model they ever produced."
But, "our understanding of the cell", and by "our" I mean the folks who actually provided you with the evidence from their studies - Scientist - the conclusion is NOT like your conclusion. In fact, they have proposed many abiogenesis hypothesis and all have a natural process of origin for the cell.
So we don't agree with you and your notion of what, comparitively, it would be like for the cell to originate. Our understanding of the living cell seems to be in direct contradiction with your personal opinion on the origin of the cell.
The side of science has tones of research done in this field. Many hypothesis have been put forth to explain it's origin. So I guess you stand alone, with no evidence, and only a personal interpretation of other scientists'evidence, that seems to be at odds with every scientist working in the field of cell origin.
Do you really have confidence in your ability to determine what the evidence points to, even when you are clearly in direct contradiction to what the working scientists in this field determined from the evidence?
I believe your understanding of the cell may be wrong, as opposed to all of the scientists understanding. Maybe you should question how you've interpreted the evidence, instead of thinking that every single scientist got it wrong.

"I smoke pot. If this bothers anyone, I suggest you look around at the world in which we live and shut your mouth."--Bill Hicks
"I never knew there was another option other than to question everything"--Noam Chomsky

This message is a reply to:
 Message 136 by LucyTheApe, posted 04-17-2009 12:47 PM LucyTheApe has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 148 by LucyTheApe, posted 04-20-2009 5:49 AM onifre has replied

  
onifre
Member (Idle past 3068 days)
Posts: 4854
From: Dark Side of the Moon
Joined: 02-20-2008


Message 151 of 284 (505949)
04-20-2009 12:57 PM
Reply to: Message 148 by LucyTheApe
04-20-2009 5:49 AM


Re: Evolution is a fraud
I have very little understanding of the cell. Biological scientists don't understand the cell either, yet, they are still doing good work.
They understand the cell very well.
What they may speculate on is the origin of it but that's still an open science. A lot of work has been put into the field of abiogenesis and there's no reason to believe that this one area of science will never be fully understood.
This is how I see it. We are talking about one of the most complex organizational structures in the known universe
No we are not. We are talking about one cell on Earth, whether or not it is the most complex structure in the universe seems a bit presumptuos and unverifiable.
Are you willing to go out on a limb and say it is the "most complex structure in the entire universe"...? Really?
The cell is complex, I will not doubt you that, it is complex to us. But we have nothing else to compare it to so it is complex in comparison to what? They are complex, to you they must seem so highly complex that their very existance is baffling to you, but I can assure you that to a cell biologist the cell is simply another organized structure found in nature, and it's origins are of natural order, as is everything elses found in nature.
What reason do you have to doubt this, and what evidence are you using to support that reason?

"I smoke pot. If this bothers anyone, I suggest you look around at the world in which we live and shut your mouth."--Bill Hicks
"I never knew there was another option other than to question everything"--Noam Chomsky

This message is a reply to:
 Message 148 by LucyTheApe, posted 04-20-2009 5:49 AM LucyTheApe has not replied

  
onifre
Member (Idle past 3068 days)
Posts: 4854
From: Dark Side of the Moon
Joined: 02-20-2008


Message 194 of 284 (506379)
04-25-2009 6:15 PM
Reply to: Message 193 by Wounded King
04-25-2009 5:40 PM


Re: End of evolution??
Hi Wounded King,
You checked the taxonomy? What does that even mean? did you read all the latest research papers on greenish warblers? Did you go out and perform lots of interfertility experiments?
I think what he meant was that they are still 'birds'. Which is the old "same kinds" argument all over again. Which would at least be a starting point to debate, if they didn't consider reproduction a dividing factor, but then when it is mentioned that chimps and humans are both then still apes, they claim that they are different because they can't reproduce.
It's very frustrating when they move the goal post to suit any particular argument. But it's easy for them because it's not real science they talk about, no one has any research or evidence so their goal posts can be moved, where as with real science the goal posts are fixed.
Real science works with parameters and specific definitions, they are free to mix and match because there are no set guildlines or specifics for them. It's all incredulity, and not to mention, frustrating as fuck to debate.

"I smoke pot. If this bothers anyone, I suggest you look around at the world in which we live and shut your mouth."--Bill Hicks
"I never knew there was another option other than to question everything"--Noam Chomsky

This message is a reply to:
 Message 193 by Wounded King, posted 04-25-2009 5:40 PM Wounded King has not replied

  
onifre
Member (Idle past 3068 days)
Posts: 4854
From: Dark Side of the Moon
Joined: 02-20-2008


Message 196 of 284 (506381)
04-25-2009 7:48 PM
Reply to: Message 195 by lyx2no
04-25-2009 7:46 PM


Re: Phylloscopus Trochiloies X
I'm not following you around, onifre. I wanted to address this hours ago but have been having computer problems. I spent my evening battling mighty mouse.
Oh come on, be my first EvC stalker.
It's cool, man, I like reading your post.

"I smoke pot. If this bothers anyone, I suggest you look around at the world in which we live and shut your mouth."--Bill Hicks
"I never knew there was another option other than to question everything"--Noam Chomsky

This message is a reply to:
 Message 195 by lyx2no, posted 04-25-2009 7:46 PM lyx2no has not replied

  
onifre
Member (Idle past 3068 days)
Posts: 4854
From: Dark Side of the Moon
Joined: 02-20-2008


Message 279 of 284 (508002)
05-09-2009 5:01 PM
Reply to: Message 269 by Rahvin
05-07-2009 7:09 PM


Re: Quantum Gap
I happen to have known many "cocksuckers," and I certainly don't consider it to be a negative thing.
Give it a while, we all live to regret one or two "cocksuckers", eventually.

"I smoke pot. If this bothers anyone, I suggest you look around at the world in which we live and shut your mouth."--Bill Hicks
"I never knew there was another option other than to question everything"--Noam Chomsky

This message is a reply to:
 Message 269 by Rahvin, posted 05-07-2009 7:09 PM Rahvin has not replied

  
onifre
Member (Idle past 3068 days)
Posts: 4854
From: Dark Side of the Moon
Joined: 02-20-2008


Message 281 of 284 (508015)
05-09-2009 10:53 PM
Reply to: Message 278 by Trev777
05-09-2009 4:49 PM


Re: Quantum Gap
We're the only primate that does so in response to embarrassing situations(shame), or when caught in a lie (guilt),
We also do it when we feel shy, awkward, attracted to someone, humbled, etc...
Were early humans subjected to selection pressures to keep them honest? What was it's survival value?
Ever been to jail?
Honesty between you and the members of your social group can help you survive in many situations. In other words, the fact that you can't be honest and up front with your group will get you fucked up in certain places.
Trust between you and the memebers of your group builds a strong group and leads to better success in anything that involved the group, like hunting big game.
I would say it was a great advantage to be able to trust the members of your group, and knowing they can be honest is one way to build that trust.
- Oni

"I smoke pot. If this bothers anyone, I suggest you look around at the world in which we live and shut your mouth."--Bill Hicks
"I never knew there was another option other than to question everything"--Noam Chomsky

This message is a reply to:
 Message 278 by Trev777, posted 05-09-2009 4:49 PM Trev777 has not replied

  
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