Hello, sorry that I cannot give you any links to day, but I find them tomorrow.
But I have a question or two.
"ust b/c an animal can exploit a certain habitat does not mean that that habitat affected its modern form. Sloths are great swimmers, but I would like to see how their evolutionary history was affected by the water. Same with dogs. Or tigers. They are not extremely well adapted for an aquatic or semi-aquatic existence. But they all can swim!"
What do you mean? can you explain it in a different way. (what is a Sloth?)
and this "ther explanations are simpler and more direct--standing upright on two legs is advantageous in grasslands where the taller you are, the further you can see over the grasses; "
I do not understand. It's possible that humans just happened to be the only mammals to develop the upright walking posture. Is that simple?
I find it a long shot. There is this animal who's name I cannot recall, sissle or something, that lives in savannah. it does stand up to look around, !But it Walks on All Four! - it's faster.
- simple and more direct. I cannot see why our ancestors would have given up their natural stance when all grassland apes/monkeys have not. It's not logical.
What is logical is that they did not deside to defy gravity, but they adapted a more straight posture when SWIMMING - if you try to walk like a chimpanzee in the water you see what I mean - water resistance makes you want to straighten up your body - up or straight (horisontally) - it's aquadynamics. I do not like Elaine Morgan's theory that says that our forefathers wanted to keep their heads up, that's why upright stance. I think its just that they wanted to swim more easier way -simple and direct. (see, I am a swimming instructor, ir you want to save energy and swim faster, you straighten your body and dive.)
"a reduced sense of smell is just what you would expect from an animal that is vision oriented (interesting how our vision is related to us being diurnal, just like the other great apes)."
This I did not know, I thought that great apes DO have a great sense of smell. especially those who live in the grasslands. If evolution is 'adaptation to environmental changes' then our evolution has gone backwards million miles.
It's logical that our forefathers survived because they adapted better to environment changes than other animals. It's not logical to say that they survived despite the fact they lost some vital abilities. Like the small, it's VITAL on the grasslands, it's vital almost anywhere but on lakes, shores, rivers - by the water, IN the water.
Mammals that moved to the water, Lost their sense of smell, nearly. As did our forefathers. Mammals that moved to the water, greatly increased their understanding of sound - they started to sing, like whales, like dolphins, like us. It's a way to analyze environment ,what you hear tells you about the environment. My kognitive teacher told me that most likely humans learned to sing long before they started to talk, long before.
All I know that chimpanzees are better adopted to grasslands than us.
1) their fur protect them from the sun
2) they are six times stronger than us, even if they are shorter.
3) their sense of smell is superior to us, they avoid predators better than do us.
4) their hearing is better, if not as analytical as ours
So how did we adopt to the grasslands? I do not understand.
Someone here said we have adoptend to many different environments. I think so too. We still can climb, not as well as other apes. We can swim, far better than any primate, or should I say, we can, unlike other primates. we can run, but not better than other primates, isn't running important in the grasslands?
when looking at our history, we should look what we can do now.
1) we are by far the best swimmers of all primates - isn't that adaptation to watery environment.
2) we are by far the weakest primates. that's not adapting to grasslands. It's just that mammals who adapt to water change their muscle structure - muscles get closer to the bones, so they get weaker but better on swimming, not sure how.
3) we are by far best at sound producing and analysing, a feature common on aquatic mammals.
4) we are smarter than other primates, that suggests that we have a history of adapting to new environments more often than they do. Using your head makes it better.
5) our skin burns in the grasslands -afrikan people neeeeed clothes. is that adaptation to the grassland?
as John Hawk, antropologist that does not believe in aquatic ape theory says, 'there is no savannah theory.'
Dogs, tigers can swim, but can they catch me? On land, without a sweat, on the water, they do not even try, most often it would seem like they were AFRAID of water. I cannot see why, water is wonderful, I love it. I have even heard of most people saying that. I have even heard that most western people go to shower every day! Dogs tend to run away from shower, just like it was something nasty.
Dogs love grasslands, apes love the forest, people love forests, water, cities and mountains. We can go anywhere, but still shore properties DO cost more than other properties. Most capitals (all???) are by the water. If we have such a connection to the water, should it mean that at some part of the history, some primate faced the choise of 'adapt to watery condition or die?' Who knows, but I think it's most propable.
At least large part of the fossils have been found near a lake, river, shore, and I mean a lake that was there by the time the ancestor died.
We can eat herbes de mare, most primates cannot - that's adaptation.
so "Beware of running with a novel idea just b/c of its novelty. Thanks."
Indeed, beware of novel ideas, try to make a theory that MAKES SENSE, and find if new evidences go by it's way or against.
I have never ever seen other theory that would make any, I mean ANY sense. Sorry if that sounds unoffensive, no offence meant.
my friend met about 9 years old kids who have spent half of their waking life in the water. She met them here in finland, as these russian kids came to some swimming conference. On of the kids went to sleep to the water (he was tired) and occasionally turned his head to the surface to breath, but otherwise he was immersed. He did not wake up to breath...
I have read a book of these kids and there was pictures of babies in an aquarium, playing with fishes, and every few minutes, sometimes even 5 minutes apart they swam to the surface to breath. small babies.
Show me a primate who can do that! Modern man has underrestimated the full capabilities of a swimming human.
-art, at your service, the links come tomorrow.
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