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Author | Topic: homosexuality | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||
John Inactive Member |
quote: Then we can ditch the thing?
quote: I've known people to do this-- something about adrenaline and tender meat.
quote: Yeah, no kidding. These same people castrated pigs with their teeth. Seriously.
quote: Oh, that's right. You wouldn't. I forgot about that. ------------------
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gene90 Member (Idle past 3813 days) Posts: 1610 Joined: |
quote: If you wish. I admit that your knowledge of the Bible is almost certainly superior to mine because you've been studying it longer.
quote: Umm ok. That's definately not cool.
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funkmasterfreaky Inactive Member |
quote: Jesus Christ through his life death and resurection has fulfilled the law and freed us from it's bondage. I do not envy the isrealites who had to live by this law, it's the most demanding I've ever encountered. This said there is a reason this law was given, and some of the guidlines given by the law have excellent applications in our lives. It also lays out how we should worship. So while we are freed from the bondage and ritual of the law, I believe that we should still definately attempt to observe it. (minus the ritual of course) ------------------Saved by an incredible Grace.
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gene90 Member (Idle past 3813 days) Posts: 1610 Joined: |
quote: See, we can say we don't have to follow the Law of Moses but then we have things like the Ten Commandments, which all Christian sects seem (Protestants especially) to follow and which seems to be a good guide in how Jews and Christians should act. So when we teach it to the kids we are kind of inconsistent. This is where I guess we "pick and choose". (Not that I think we should plaster it up in gov't buildings though) [This message has been edited by gene90, 12-17-2002]
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funkmasterfreaky Inactive Member |
I don't see the inconsistency. We are freed from the law, but the law still contains much wisdom, so out of love for God we try and adhere to his law. However we have been freed from the ritualistic bondage of the law. Jesus Christ is the atonement for sins, no more need for baths, and sacrafice, or chewing on scrotums. Yay God!! lol. Alot of the law as stated in Leviticus is also to a specific culture, and we don't find a place to apply it to our lives. Anyways don't want to spin off topic if anyone wants to discuss the law, Forgiven and I have started a thread called the Law. No-one was interested at the time, but I believe the thread is still there in the Faith and Belief forum.
------------------Saved by an incredible Grace.
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John Inactive Member |
quote: Precisely the kind of thing I was thinking about. ------------------
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John Inactive Member |
quote: Funk, the Levitical laws created the culture. Saying it doesn't apply is the same as saying you abandonned them. ------------------
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zipzip Inactive Member |
Gene,
If the Bible doesn't support the idea of a pope, then you ought to be able to walk up to a Catholic and talk it over. If they are a Christian and there is a definite prohibition in the Bible: "thou shalt not have popes" then somebody needs to make a decision. The Amish can do as they please, although some would say they are shirking Christ's great command: "Go make disciples of all nations..." But that is not for me or anyone else but the Amish to decide. I assume you are referring to the BOM, etc. The point is the Bible has to stand on its own anyway, Gene, because it has been around for a lot longer that the BOM. The OT stands on its own, the OT+NT stands on its own, and by that same token, the OT+NT+BOM should stand on its own if the BOM is legitimate. Besides that there are a number of scriptural references within the Bible that are clear that the Bible stands on its own and that none of it has ever been or will ever be irrelevant --> "all scripture is...useful for teaching and exhortation" "not on jot nor tittle will pass from the Law..." etc. Where a person gets into trouble is by throwing things out. If the Bible doesn't fit with what you believe the answer is not to start throwing things out. Much better to learn to understand it.
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gene90 Member (Idle past 3813 days) Posts: 1610 Joined: |
Ok, I merely misunderstood you.
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funkmasterfreaky Inactive Member |
quote: So until the law there was no culture existing in the world? There were no common ways of doing things? There were no similarities in behaviour because of economic conditions, physical location, or other social influences? ------------------Saved by an incredible Grace.
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John Inactive Member |
quote: Gene, you know damn well what I am getting at. Why do you insist on playing this game? Common knowledge practices with a known physical cause are not evidence. Something that should not work but DOES would be convincing.
quote: You cannot tell the difference between covering a wound and voodoo magic? LOL.....
quote: You don't need the germ theory of disease to figure out what works and what doesn't. Of course you get a lot of magic mixed into the medecine.
quote: This is absurd. The Sumerian, Babylonians, Egyptians and pretty much every one else had/have medical technology that works. Is this proof of all the various mythologies that go along with it? Nope. They figured stuff out themselves through trial and error.
quote: Only for you.
quote: Ah.... but if those Isrealite voodoo dolls only work for the faithful (or when used by isrealite priest, or some other criterion that would tie the doll to a PARTICULAR GOD) and those same dolls did not work when not used by the faithful, then you'd have something.
quote: Yes, but it isn't.
quote: The reason I picked the dove slaughtering is because it is magic, and there is no mechanism that would explain it. In fact, it has a whole lot going against it. ------------------
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gene90 Member (Idle past 3813 days) Posts: 1610 Joined: |
quote: No. I am not trying to use "medical" practices to prove anything. I'm trying to demonstrate that the claim that the ancient Jews' treatment of sores came about through observation is unfalsifiable. I'm trying to show that your beliefs based upon the apparent failure of dove-slaughtering are unfalsifiable. Even if dove sacrifice did cure disease you would explain it away as observation, just as you explain away the treatment of soars.
quote: Then you would claim that the Isrealites noticed that certain priests could cure diseases and so the practice came about through observation rather than revelation. And by the way, if this only happens by the work of the faithful, doesn't that sound rather like contemporary claims of miracle healings? And if only the faithful perform this, do you think repeatable, scientific evidence would be easy to come by? That is assuming God will perform for the test. It may or may not be impossible for you to prove, but very difficult at the least.
quote: For the sake of this argument a mechanism is unnecessary, we are simply assuming that covering sores helps and, hypothetically, that the voodoo dolls and dove sacrifice work. [This message has been edited by gene90, 12-17-2002]
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John Inactive Member |
quote: Gene, it is very very irritating when you tell me what I'd do. And, seriously, how seriously do you expect to be taken when you refer to verifiable medical practice as if it were some kind of wish-fulfillment and ad hoc rationalization?
quote: Here we go again telling me what I'd do. Yes. I would look for some form of explaination before concluding that something odd was up. However, I was assuming that this had been done and that nothing short of outright magic fit the bill, even in theory. Then we ask, is it any magic or just Isrealite magic? We let athiests try it. We let Buddhists try it. And so on. You could build a convincing case, if the magic works.
quote: It still matters that there is a mechanism or not, because those explainations with a mechanism can be eliminated, as I explained above. ------------------
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gene90 Member (Idle past 3813 days) Posts: 1610 Joined: |
quote: I'm not sure what you're talking about. I'm only claiming that your claim that soar treatment by the ancient Isrealites must have been from observation rather than revelation is a non-falsifiable position. If you would admit that it could have been from revelation (as I admit it could have been from observation) then I will be happy to drop the point.
quote: I'm simply extending your reasoning on the origin of the knowledge of soars to dove sacrifice.
quote: As I said, you may or may not be able to prove that the rituals were valid. But the most you could ever prove was that Isrealite priests and rituals, along with a dove sacrifice, cured a disease. But how did the Israelites discover they could cure disease in that manner? Through observation or revelation? Maybe they just noticed that their priests had an ability that they (nor science in this hypothetical example) could explain. Or maybe God told them. My only point is that the claim that their rituals were derived from observation is unfalsifiable.
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John Inactive Member |
quote: Pretty much anything COULD have happened. I'm talking about trying to determine what actually did happen.
quote: It isn't about the origin, per se. It is about whether something that shouldn't work, actually does work.
quote: I don't care how they came to the knowledge, if it points to something genuinely inexplicable to which no other religion can lay claim.
quote: And, like I said, I really don't care. ------------------
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