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Originally posted by RetroCrono:
I know very little of the Neanderthals so please do not stereo type what I say as to representing other creationist as this is purely my own thinking without doing any research on the subject as of yet.
I really must know why it is that you feel confident to have any opinion at all about Neanderthals if you admit to knowing nearly nothing about them.
It would be like me holding forth about the details and nature of black holes, even though I know very little about black holes.
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Firstly, I find it strange that you consider art to represent a soul. How do you know it was art that they were doing? Your perception of art could not be what they perceive as art and I'm doubtful they even new the concept.
How can you doubt something you know nothing about?
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Did they some how leave recorded documents as to art so we can know what they perceived as art.
Of course not, and recorded documents are not needed in order to make a valid inference about the past. The field of Paleoanthropology wouldn't exist if one always needed a document. Hell, a lot of crimes wouldn't ever be solved if you couldn't tell what happened in the past without a document.
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Could they have just been doing what comes by instinct following the cycle that God had set into motion.
Ritual burial practices are instincual?
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Now, saying they had simple tools is proof of nothing. I was watching an evolution show on monkeys the other day and they were raving on about how incredible it was how they were poking sticks into some ant holes.
It was probably chimpanzees, not monkeys.
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They said how incredible it was seeing them using tools. Since when had science became so primitive? Thirdly, many animals dig holes and bury stuff, could it not just be instinct.
Actually, there is a great deal of first-hand evidence that tool use in Chimps is learned.
Also, the idea that only humans used tools was recent (meaning in the last 40 years or so).
http://chimpanzoo.arizona.edu/study/tools.html
"For many years, humans had distinguished themselves from the rest of the animal world by their ability to make and use tools. In the 1960's, this distinction was shattered when Dr. Jane Goodall reported several observations of chimpanzees making and using tools. She learned that chimpanzees not only used various tools for different tasks, but modified objects for tools so that they were better suited for the tasks. Humans were faced with the fact that they were not as far from their primate relatives as they had liked to believe.
In the forests of Tanzania, Dr. Goodall observed chimpanzees carefully choosing sticks and then stripping them of their leaves so that they could be used to fish for termites and ants. The twigs are broken, shaped with fingers and teeth, and inserted into termite mounds to capture insects whose bites are very painful. The termites attack and cling to the stick, allowing the chimpanzee to quickly pull the stick out and eat the termites. The use of a twig as a tool allows the chimpanzee to avoid being stung.
Almost as fascinating as the fact that they make and use these sticks for tools is the process by which they learn to do so. Chimpanzees are not born with these skills, they must learn them by watching adults, usually their mothers. Female chimpanzees seem to have more success in termite fishing, perhaps only because they are more patient during the learning process and do not give up frustrated as the males are apt to do.
Termite fishing is not the only example of tool use in chimpanzees. In addition, leaves are chewed until softened and used for sponges to clean wounds or to absorb liquids for ingesting. Certain groups of chimpanzees use rocks as hammers and anvils to crack open palm nuts so they can eat the meat inside. One troop of chimpanzees has been observed using pieces of bark to protect their hands and feet as they climb trees with prickly branches. Chimpanzees sometimes eat plants that they would normally avoid because they are hard to swallow or bitter. Research has shown that these plants have medicinal qualities, such as controlling intestinal parasites.
The differences in tool use between different troops of chimpanzees can be seen as a form of culture. There are many groups of chimpanzees who have access to palm nuts and rocks and yet do not engage in nut cracking. The techniques used for termite fishing differ between groups of chimpanzees. Some will use a short stick which they use to collect the termites and then remove the termites with their mouths. Others choose a longer stick and quickly sweep the termites off the twig with their hands and then into their mouths. Just as in humans, much of chimpanzee behavior is learned and passed down from generation to generation."
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I always wonder how you can draw such conclusions from so little evidence, can you really know they did any of these things you speak of through looking at some fossils? No you can't,
It's much more than just fossils. We also have a lot of artifacts, and the evidence that Neanderthal buried their dead with ritual paining and special objects.
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just like I heard them saying how the T-Rex may have become extinct from depression resulting in them avoiding the opposite sex.
Please list your source.
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Just like you said they made fires, unless they had video cameras how are you to know this, much like everything else you say there. Perhaps us homo sapiens went through, with simple tools, killed them, cooked them over the fire, buried there bones and accidently left some of there art behind.
The truth is, what I just said is really ridiculous, much like claiming they can be so certain on the way they lived. You never lived there, so you do not know what really went on. The evidence that is left behind could be taken to form many different ideas.
Again, considering you know nothing about Neanderthals, why should any of your ideas be given any credence at all?
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Unfortunately, main stream science is a little caught up in evolution so the evidence will only be taken with straight out bias.
Bias towards credible evidence is a good thing.
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We think it's either because Homo Sapiens interbred with them...
Wow, I'm doubtful you speak for any real evolutionist there. Since when could two different species successfully mate?
the book is still out on this in Biology, but it is certainly possible.
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Sigh, I'm kinda getting tired of this evolutionary thinking. You have all just become products of society being told exactly how to think. It's both boring and sad.
The study of the diversity of life on the planet is exciting and amazing; hardly sad.
It is a wonderful unraveling of a puzzle.
You would have me simply, simplistically, say "Godidit" according to your particular interpretation of the Christian Bible.
If you had not been raised in a Christian country, you wouldn't be thinking like this, you know. If you were born in India, you would probably be a Hindu, and if you were born in China, you wouuld either be an Atheist or a Buddhist. If you were born in Italy, you would have been Catholic, which has no problem with the ToE.
[Fixed quoting. --Admin]
[This message has been edited by Admin, 09-01-2003]
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