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Member (Idle past 1239 days) Posts: 2965 From: Los Angeles, CA USA Joined: |
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Author | Topic: All in the Family - Guest star: Neanderthal | |||||||||||||||||||||||||
randman ![]() Suspended Member (Idle past 3646 days) Posts: 6367 Joined: |
Nuggins, thanks for posting that image. It is exactly the type of thing I am talking about. I am not sure what current theory is, but we were taught Cro-magnon averaged 6' tall, had a slightly larger brain as well.
Neaderthal seems misrepresented as well. Btw, I had thought more than one specimen, not just a girl, indicated interbreeding. Note the following article. http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/3129654.stm This message has been edited by randman, 01-11-2006 11:57 AM
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randman ![]() Suspended Member (Idle past 3646 days) Posts: 6367 Joined: |
http://cogweb.ucla.edu/ep/Neanderthal.html I realize this is a NYT's article, but it does reflect my view of Neanderthals not as a separate species, but as a different tribe of people. This message has been edited by randman, 01-11-2006 12:01 PM
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lfen Member (Idle past 3424 days) Posts: 2189 From: Oregon Joined: |
I am very interested in the relationship of neanderthal and cromagnon. lfen
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Belfry Member (Idle past 3832 days) Posts: 177 From: Ocala, FL Joined: |
Very interesting, thanks!
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Nuggin Member (Idle past 1239 days) Posts: 2965 From: Los Angeles, CA USA Joined: |
I agree with that statement, but I don't think the picture shows anything different. There's no scale put up, so assuming Cro-Mag there is 6 ft, then the modern man is what? 6'2". I have at least 4 friends who meet or beat that criteria and none of them play basketball. A better question to ask is why everyone in the picture seems to be white?
How so? I pointed out two features that I "think" aren't accurate - Are you seeing other things or just those two? Because, even though I pointed them out, it's a much better picture than I could ever hope to draw.
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Nuggin Member (Idle past 1239 days) Posts: 2965 From: Los Angeles, CA USA Joined: |
Good link, Rand. Interesting find.
The science is only as good as the most recent evidence. It's entirely possible that there was hybridization and that Neanderthal genes were simply swamped by the comparitive inrush of purely Homo Sapien genes. Or, it could be that there was hybridization and all members of the hybrid group and their decendants died out before modern day, leaving no DNA record in the current gene pool.
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Nuggin Member (Idle past 1239 days) Posts: 2965 From: Los Angeles, CA USA Joined: |
Let's run with that. Obviously Neanderthals and Homo Sapiens had different features, and started up in different areas. It seems apparent that Homo Erectus was the seeder of both populations. Would we then assume that Homo Erectus, Neanderthals and Homo Sapiens shouldn't be considered different species, but rather different extremes within a larger group?
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randman ![]() Suspended Member (Idle past 3646 days) Posts: 6367 Joined: |
Nuggin, depicting modern man as typically 6'2" is way off the mark. I don't know what the average height is now, but in the 70s, it's far less than 6', and more like 5'7", something like that. Gotta remember that some Oriental nations have far less height and yet great numbers.
So an accurate depiction would show Cro-Magnon significantly taller than modern man, and would cut all the extraneous stuff like one having a beard and another not. That stuff creates a false appearance of some anatomical evolution taking place which has not basically occurred for the most part, except people are smaller than they once were, and even that is changing some now back the other way due to nutrition.
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randman ![]() Suspended Member (Idle past 3646 days) Posts: 6367 Joined: |
Nuggins, I think evos ought to consider Neanderthals and Cro-magnons and modern people all the same species.
Because evos look at things differently, I don't think they are going to call Homo Erectus the same species, but I have no problem with that, or perhaps species is not the best term.
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randman ![]() Suspended Member (Idle past 3646 days) Posts: 6367 Joined: |
On Neanderthals, my understanding is Neanderthals had larger brains and a side view limits some aspects as well. The arms seem longer and larger on all 3, but maybe not.
The basic problem is we could find 3 people today, line them up, dress them funny, one shaven and another not, and create a similar line-up.
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Coragyps Member Posts: 5548 From: Snyder, Texas, USA Joined: |
Yessir. I'll try to be good.
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Minnemooseus Member Posts: 3834 From: Duluth, Minnesota, U.S. (West end of Lake Superior) Joined: |
Not the expert here, but I think that Cro-magnons and modern man ARE both considered to be Homo sapiens. The Homo sapeins vs. Neanderthal relationship is much more debated. I think there are some scientists that do consider Neaderthal man to be a variety of Homo sapiens. I think it may be much like the relationship between the domestic dog and the wolf. The wolf is Canis lupus. The dog is Canis familiaris to some, and Canis lupus familiaris (a breed of wolf) to others. I like the "breed of wolf" concept. But this is not a wolf/dog topic. I bring such up because... I think some file Neanderthal man under Homo neanderthalis and some file him under Homo sapiens neanderthalis. I point out that there is the existing topic Neanderthals and Cro-Magnon, started by Mammuthus. Moose (the other smelly hairy member) This message has been edited by minnemooseus, 01-11-2006 02:27 PM
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Nuggin Member (Idle past 1239 days) Posts: 2965 From: Los Angeles, CA USA Joined: |
re: Average heights
I agree that the overall average height of people is under 6', mostly due to low protein content in Asian food and their disproportionately high numbers. Still, this image of a man is clearly not Asian. I'd suggest N. European - so the height is right on mark. However, if you want to talk about whether or not this picture should show a N European as opposed to a sub-saharan African, I'm right there with ya. re: The Beard and the Spear
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Nuggin Member (Idle past 1239 days) Posts: 2965 From: Los Angeles, CA USA Joined: |
Larger by volume, but not up/down height. A side view of the skull is actually better to evaluate the Neanderthal size. However, with the flesh on, it's pretty hard to make anything out.
Of the first two, certainly. Of the Neanderthal? I dunno know. There are a lot of people out there, some pretty weird looking, but no forehead, no chin is a tricky find.
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Nuggin Member (Idle past 1239 days) Posts: 2965 From: Los Angeles, CA USA Joined: |
Yeah, we're a little limited by our vocabulary here. The real definition of species may not suit us well. My overall point is this - Sort of like a Chocolate Lab standing amoung a wide ranging group of dogs. Agreed?
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