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Author Topic:   Man's Successor
Straggler
Member (Idle past 389 days)
Posts: 10333
From: London England
Joined: 09-30-2006


Message 18 of 35 (461407)
03-25-2008 11:18 AM
Reply to: Message 16 by Agobot
03-25-2008 7:18 AM


Radical Atheism
Hmmmm
The sort of thinking you are proposing has been suggested before in a different context. Wasn't it Enoch Powell who claimed that racial integration was impossible and should therefore not even be attempted? Is your proposal so different?
Communist USSR tried to ban religion and that failed.
What do you suggest we do? Setup individual nation states for different religions and then let everyone fight over the land? Oh that one has been tried as well. Again not very successfully.
I am no fan of religion but banning religion or formally segregating people on religious grounds has some pretty poor form historically. The general lesson would eem to be that these sorts of measures cause terrible trouble down the line and should be avoided at all costs.
I am not a Christian but the teachings of Christ on tolerance and forgiveness seem pretty ahead of their time in this context.

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Replies to this message:
 Message 19 by Taz, posted 03-25-2008 11:36 AM Straggler has replied

  
Straggler
Member (Idle past 389 days)
Posts: 10333
From: London England
Joined: 09-30-2006


Message 22 of 35 (461421)
03-25-2008 12:00 PM
Reply to: Message 19 by Taz
03-25-2008 11:36 AM


Re: Radical Atheism
Avoided? I am proposing that we let the religious right have their way. I say we divide this country into two and let the jesus freaks do what they want on their side of the border. I'd really love to see what kinds of technological and social advancements they'd have 10, 20, 30, 50 years after seperation. It ought to be interesting.
Well as an interesting social experiment I have to say I would be tempted
The idea of letting all the fundamentalists implode in their own nation state asylum is also not without some appeal to me
However in practise I don't think dividing people up on religious grounds will do anything other than create multiple warring factions each thinking they have God on their side and the divine right to the land and wealth of the various inferior and thus inhuman dibelievers in the one true God.
So was Buddha's teachings.
Take your pick as far as I am concerned. Peace and tolerance ahead of divisiveness and war is all I am advocating. Buddha, yoga or Dungeons and Dragons is all fine by me if it has the desired effect.

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 Message 24 by Agobot, posted 03-25-2008 12:57 PM Straggler has replied

  
Straggler
Member (Idle past 389 days)
Posts: 10333
From: London England
Joined: 09-30-2006


Message 25 of 35 (461429)
03-25-2008 1:19 PM
Reply to: Message 24 by Agobot
03-25-2008 12:57 PM


Re: Radical Atheism
This social experiment has already been carried out successfully - in Pakistan, Afghanistan and Iran the society consists of 99.99999% religeous freaks and the law is called Sharia, i.e. religion is above the law and always has the upper hand.
That is a gross simplification of the situation in these countries which arguably has it's roots in a brutal colonial past. If people are suppressed they will eventually fight and religion is the sort of ideological totem around which people seem inclined to unite.
I don't see how banning religion will do anything more than give credence to the arguments of dangerous fanatics preaching violonce as a reaction to perceived persecution.
If for arguments sake we accept the banning of religion how would you do it such that it does not have the opposite effect to the one you desire?
Edited by Straggler, : No reason given.

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 Message 24 by Agobot, posted 03-25-2008 12:57 PM Agobot has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 26 by Agobot, posted 03-25-2008 1:31 PM Straggler has replied
 Message 27 by Agobot, posted 03-25-2008 1:38 PM Straggler has replied

  
Straggler
Member (Idle past 389 days)
Posts: 10333
From: London England
Joined: 09-30-2006


Message 28 of 35 (461438)
03-25-2008 1:43 PM
Reply to: Message 26 by Agobot
03-25-2008 1:31 PM


Re: Radical Atheism
There are pockets of neofascism in both Europe and America. But I accept the point that it's widespread promotion is pretty well contained. However these people do have the legal right to express their views and I think the restriction on them is more social than legal.
The difficulty is in defining what is extreme and what is not.
There are laws in place against murder, violence and oppression.
Do these laws need to be tailored to target religion specifically when any 'extreme' activities are already covered by law to all practical intents and purposes anyway?
I fundamentally disagree with the teachings of fascism but I would fight for the right for others to hold and express those views as long as they do not stray from the law with respect to violence.
Persuasion not restriction is the only real way to fight the worst excesses of ideological extremes.

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Straggler
Member (Idle past 389 days)
Posts: 10333
From: London England
Joined: 09-30-2006


Message 29 of 35 (461442)
03-25-2008 2:14 PM
Reply to: Message 27 by Agobot
03-25-2008 1:38 PM


Re: Radical Atheism
It's not about their past or that they are suppressed. It's about them being totally brainwashed by the state.
To some extent yes. But how did that state get into power and how did it come to hold such sway over the people through religion? These are complex questions with the answers rooted in history.

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