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Author Topic:   Does evidence of transitional forms exist ? (Hominid and other)
mark24
Member (Idle past 5194 days)
Posts: 3857
From: UK
Joined: 12-01-2001


Message 16 of 301 (4997)
02-18-2002 7:05 PM
Reply to: Message 15 by TrueCreation
02-18-2002 6:59 PM


quote:
Originally posted by TrueCreation:
"How would be being between one form & another too different?"
--Because the difference that would be present, may be too much for the theory to cope with, mabye through examples we would take it into more consideration. They just may be another type of ape, for instance, not a transitional.

What do transitionals have to do with apes, per se? Can you explain why horse embryos have 3 toes, but the adult horse rarely does (the splints have sidetoes)? A true vestigial trait. Curiously, the fossil record shows a slow reduction in toes/ toe functionality in horses. Can you explain this remarkable corroboration?
Mark
------------------
Occam's razor is not for shaving with.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 15 by TrueCreation, posted 02-18-2002 6:59 PM TrueCreation has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 17 by TrueCreation, posted 02-18-2002 7:10 PM mark24 has replied

TrueCreation
Inactive Member


Message 17 of 301 (5000)
02-18-2002 7:10 PM
Reply to: Message 16 by mark24
02-18-2002 7:05 PM


"What do transitionals have to do with apes, per se?"
--Well 'ape-like' creatures, the question of human ancestry (transitionals).
"? Can you explain why horse embryos have 3 toes, but the adult horse rarely does (the splints have sidetoes)? A true vestigial trait. Curiously, the fossil record shows a slow reduction in toes/ toe functionality in horses. Can you explain this remarkable corroboration?"
--Reference?
------------------

This message is a reply to:
 Message 16 by mark24, posted 02-18-2002 7:05 PM mark24 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 20 by mark24, posted 02-18-2002 7:19 PM TrueCreation has not replied
 Message 22 by Pete, posted 02-19-2002 7:28 PM TrueCreation has not replied

lbhandli
Inactive Member


Message 18 of 301 (5001)
02-18-2002 7:12 PM
Reply to: Message 15 by TrueCreation
02-18-2002 6:59 PM


How do you know this is your response without seeing the evidence?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 15 by TrueCreation, posted 02-18-2002 6:59 PM TrueCreation has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 19 by TrueCreation, posted 02-18-2002 7:19 PM lbhandli has not replied

TrueCreation
Inactive Member


Message 19 of 301 (5004)
02-18-2002 7:19 PM
Reply to: Message 18 by lbhandli
02-18-2002 7:12 PM


"How do you know this is your response without seeing the evidence?"
--I don't know that this would be my response exactly, I am asking for the examples so we can come to that. I was stating that this is one of the problems that I have seen argued with some transitionals.
------------------

This message is a reply to:
 Message 18 by lbhandli, posted 02-18-2002 7:12 PM lbhandli has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 23 by Jeff, posted 02-19-2002 8:09 PM TrueCreation has not replied

mark24
Member (Idle past 5194 days)
Posts: 3857
From: UK
Joined: 12-01-2001


Message 20 of 301 (5005)
02-18-2002 7:19 PM
Reply to: Message 17 by TrueCreation
02-18-2002 7:10 PM


Science & Earth History, Strahler, 1999 p443. See also polydactyly by atavism . Gould, 1983, pp. 177-179.
http://www.cs.colorado.edu/~lindsay/creation/horse_growth.html
Foetal Growth Of A Horse Foot.
Mark
------------------
Occam's razor is not for shaving with.
[This message has been edited by mark24, 02-19-2002]
[This message has been edited by mark24, 02-19-2002]

This message is a reply to:
 Message 17 by TrueCreation, posted 02-18-2002 7:10 PM TrueCreation has not replied

lbhandli
Inactive Member


Message 21 of 301 (5020)
02-18-2002 9:57 PM
Reply to: Message 15 by TrueCreation
02-18-2002 6:59 PM


quote:
--So which ones are their that claim to be transitionals? We can discuss them, and the unusual apes, my argument would end up being somewhere along the lines, of they couldn't be transitional because they are 'too' different, ie, they are unique and unable to cope with the theory on Human evolution.
...my argument WOULD END UP BEING
If this is simply your inability to write clearly again, so be it.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 15 by TrueCreation, posted 02-18-2002 6:59 PM TrueCreation has not replied

Pete
Inactive Member


Message 22 of 301 (5107)
02-19-2002 7:28 PM
Reply to: Message 17 by TrueCreation
02-18-2002 7:10 PM


quote:
Originally posted by TrueCreation:
"What do transitionals have to do with apes, per se?"
--Well 'ape-like' creatures, the question of human ancestry (transitionals).
"? Can you explain why horse embryos have 3 toes, but the adult horse rarely does (the splints have sidetoes)? A true vestigial trait. Curiously, the fossil record shows a slow reduction in toes/ toe functionality in horses. Can you explain this remarkable corroboration?"
--Reference?

You're in a debate against evolution and you DON'T know of a reference
for one of the most talked about evidences FOR evolution ????
Have you actually read anything about evolution ?
Sorry if that's a bit strong, but I'm incredulous that someone
debating about evolution would need to ask for a reference
to the reduction in toes in horse evolution.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 17 by TrueCreation, posted 02-18-2002 7:10 PM TrueCreation has not replied

Jeff
Inactive Member


Message 23 of 301 (5109)
02-19-2002 8:09 PM
Reply to: Message 19 by TrueCreation
02-18-2002 7:19 PM


quote:
Originally posted by TrueCreation:
"How do you know this is your response without seeing the evidence?"
--I don't know that this would be my response exactly, I am asking for the examples so we can come to that. I was stating that this is one of the problems that I have seen argued with some transitionals.

TrueCreation,
Please examine the very first post, which established this thread.
The evidence HAS been posted. Once you have viewed the images I took the trouble to post, please tell us what you see, perhaps a brief analysis. No one expects you to post a dissertation on these fossils - just look at them and tell us how it compares to known, modern organisms.
(surreal transition to a Law & Order episode)
Jack McCoy: -"Your Honor, permission to treat the witness as hostile."
Judge: - You may proceed.
Is Turkana-boy, the specimen I posted a:
a.) fully modern human?
b.) fully modern chimpanzee?
c.) fully modern Suzuki Quad Runner ATV?
d.) fully modern Salsa recipe?
...and...perhaps a few comments as to why you chose your response.
No scientific authentication is required. I am soliciting your opinion.
Kind Regards,
jeff

This message is a reply to:
 Message 19 by TrueCreation, posted 02-18-2002 7:19 PM TrueCreation has not replied

Replies to this message:
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 Message 239 by ex libres, posted 05-26-2004 2:47 PM Jeff has not replied

bkwusa
Inactive Member


Message 24 of 301 (5119)
02-19-2002 11:42 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by Jeff
02-08-2002 2:48 PM


i was wondering... is there any genetic link from the discovered humonoids to the modern humans?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by Jeff, posted 02-08-2002 2:48 PM Jeff has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 25 by joz, posted 02-19-2002 11:57 PM bkwusa has replied

joz
Inactive Member


Message 25 of 301 (5120)
02-19-2002 11:57 PM
Reply to: Message 24 by bkwusa
02-19-2002 11:42 PM


quote:
Originally posted by bkwusa:
i was wondering... is there any genetic link from the discovered humonoids to the modern humans?
In what form? DNA comparisons? It is very rare for genetic material to be preserved so probably not....
However what is noticeable as we observe the natural world is that the closer an organism resembles us the less genetic differences there are between us....
As the "humonoids" (sic) have morphologies that lie between human and chimpanzee (our closest genetic relatives) It would seem that the inference of a simiar genetic position (between Chimp and human) would be valid....

This message is a reply to:
 Message 24 by bkwusa, posted 02-19-2002 11:42 PM bkwusa has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 26 by bkwusa, posted 02-20-2002 12:11 AM joz has replied

bkwusa
Inactive Member


Message 26 of 301 (5121)
02-20-2002 12:11 AM
Reply to: Message 25 by joz
02-19-2002 11:57 PM


i was thinking somethink along dna test to compare them to modern humans like they have done with the Neandeatal http://www.archaeology.org/online/news/dna.html here is a link to the finding to the neanderthal study... i was wondering if there was any possibility they did the same with the other found fossils...

This message is a reply to:
 Message 25 by joz, posted 02-19-2002 11:57 PM joz has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 29 by joz, posted 02-21-2002 1:49 PM bkwusa has not replied
 Message 163 by monado, posted 01-20-2003 10:55 PM bkwusa has not replied

Quetzal
Member (Idle past 5871 days)
Posts: 3228
Joined: 01-09-2002


Message 27 of 301 (5123)
02-20-2002 1:58 AM
Reply to: Message 10 by TrueCreation
02-18-2002 4:42 PM


quote:
Originally posted by TrueCreation:
"So, how do Young Earth Creationists explain this evidence ?"
--I was hoping I wouldn't get myself in too many more topics. But what I've found is that all the transitionals that scientists would be to propose by common descent of humans is they are either apes, unusual apes, or their human. Which one doesn't fit into one of these catagories?

Here's my absolute all-time favorite quiz, TC. Why don't you tell US which one's ape, near-ape, human, near-human? Good luck.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 10 by TrueCreation, posted 02-18-2002 4:42 PM TrueCreation has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 31 by redstang281, posted 02-22-2002 8:35 AM Quetzal has replied

Jeff
Inactive Member


Message 28 of 301 (5228)
02-21-2002 1:33 PM
Reply to: Message 23 by Jeff
02-19-2002 8:09 PM


Any response from the gallery ?
What in the heck are these things we've posted here ?
Does ANYONE in the Creationist camp have an answer ?
How will we EVER explain them ?
Kind Regards,
jeff

This message is a reply to:
 Message 23 by Jeff, posted 02-19-2002 8:09 PM Jeff has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 30 by Quetzal, posted 02-21-2002 4:47 PM Jeff has not replied

joz
Inactive Member


Message 29 of 301 (5229)
02-21-2002 1:49 PM
Reply to: Message 26 by bkwusa
02-20-2002 12:11 AM


quote:
Originally posted by bkwusa:
i was thinking somethink along dna test to compare them to modern humans like they have done with the Neandeatal....
....i was wondering if there was any possibility they did the same with the other found fossils...

From your scource:
"For the first time, DNA of a premodern human has been recovered."
Answers your question if this is the first bit of viable DNA recovered the chances that they haven`t performed any other comparisons approaches unity.....

This message is a reply to:
 Message 26 by bkwusa, posted 02-20-2002 12:11 AM bkwusa has not replied

Quetzal
Member (Idle past 5871 days)
Posts: 3228
Joined: 01-09-2002


Message 30 of 301 (5236)
02-21-2002 4:47 PM
Reply to: Message 28 by Jeff
02-21-2002 1:33 PM


quote:
Originally posted by Jeff:
Any response from the gallery ?
What in the heck are these things we've posted here ?
Does ANYONE in the Creationist camp have an answer ?
How will we EVER explain them ?
Kind Regards,
jeff

Nah, there won't be any response. Anytime anyone posts any concrete evidence for any scientific point, the creationists simply wait until the post slides off the bottom of the page. Witness my apparently now-defunct attempt to engage Cobra in a substantive argument on HIS OWN THEORY!!!. As was pointed out in the "Debate" thread (albeit for different reasons), the debate between science and creationism will never be resolved: but only because the creationists refuse to debate when cornered...

This message is a reply to:
 Message 28 by Jeff, posted 02-21-2002 1:33 PM Jeff has not replied

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