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Author Topic:   human tails and the midriff - hiccups, what are the creatonist theories about them?
sywen
Junior Member (Idle past 5359 days)
Posts: 5
Joined: 05-22-2009


Message 1 of 79 (509556)
05-22-2009 11:57 AM


1) we all know the hiccups, sometimes pretty anoying and irritating.
we humans still have hiccups, a trait that the fish and the amphibians, still have for surviving in the water, a necessity
For what are hiccups needed? It is an involuntary contraction of muscle groups in our breast and throat - involuntary, because, did you ever try to stop hiccups by will allone? The hiccups arises as we suck up air, while the epiglottis, the hood on our respiratory tube, that our throat closes, snaps.
For amphibians, such mechanism was of utmost importance, for us humans it is not, (except for the rare occasions we fall into a canal ) But we inherited the nerval systems for those mechanics from our predecessors. the nerval sytem traces from our brains to our midriff: the nervus phrenicus. and when there is irritation (like pressure) on that nerve, there is a possibility of hiccups.
If there would be an intelligent design, wouldnt it be more intelligent just to leave that out, or make the starting point of the nervus phrenicus near the midriff itself instead of near the cranus?
2) the human tails? what are the theories about those?
Numerous medical and scientific papers documenting such cases from around the world can be found here:
[The human tail. Report of a case of coccygeal retroposition in childhood] - PubMed

Replies to this message:
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 Message 7 by wirkkalaj, posted 08-09-2009 12:11 AM sywen has replied
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 Message 30 by mike the wiz, posted 08-17-2009 5:21 AM sywen has replied

  
sywen
Junior Member (Idle past 5359 days)
Posts: 5
Joined: 05-22-2009


Message 14 of 79 (518898)
08-09-2009 12:02 PM
Reply to: Message 7 by wirkkalaj
08-09-2009 12:11 AM


Just because it's a necessity for them, does not mean we shared that necessity in our evolutionary history and it's just left over. If hiccups were necessary for surviving in the water. Why don't dolphins do it? Or crabs? Or Octopus?
You misunderstood. It is not a necessity for surviving in the water, it is a necessity for the fish and amphibians to survive in the water. i hope you can see the difference?. Dolphins do hiccup too, crabs and octpusses not, because those didn't evolve from fishes and amphibians.
those are marine invertebrates. you gave the answer yourself
This is an elongated tail bone, everybody has one?
no, not everyone has them, people who have them are very rare (only 23 cases have been reported since 1884). they are not just a elongated tail bone:
The true tail arises from the most distal remnant of the embryonic tail, contains adipose, connective, muscle, and nerve tissue, and is covered by skin. Pseudotails represent a variety of lesions having in common a lumbosacral protrusion and a superficial resemblance to vestigial tails.
Human tails and pseudotails - PubMed
Edited by sywen, : No reason given.
Edited by sywen, : No reason given.
Edited by sywen, : No reason given.

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sywen
Junior Member (Idle past 5359 days)
Posts: 5
Joined: 05-22-2009


Message 27 of 79 (519319)
08-13-2009 7:50 AM
Reply to: Message 24 by slevesque
08-10-2009 5:24 AM


my opinion is that this phenomenon is just a medical thing, where a patient would simply have his coccyx grow way too long.
there are tails that are 12+ inches long, and those are not just a coccux grown to long, those tails have glands, muscles, nerves, etc in them. if it were just a coccyx grown too long, it wouldn't have those as coccyx is just bone
and 12+ inches long is in my opinion a bit long for an overgrown bone..
here is a picture of a child with tail:
Edited by sywen, : No reason given.

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sywen
Junior Member (Idle past 5359 days)
Posts: 5
Joined: 05-22-2009


Message 36 of 79 (519809)
08-17-2009 1:27 PM
Reply to: Message 30 by mike the wiz
08-17-2009 5:21 AM


Re: Creationist Answer
For example, certain animals might have blue eyes, does this mean I inherited my blue eyes from such organisms?
Does it prove we came from animals with tails? No. Pigs have eyes, does that mean we came from pigs?
that is a common argument from creationists. but it is a fallacy.
no it doesn't mean we canmefrom those animals. but it can mean both humans and that certain animal had a common ancester.
or it could just mean blue eyes are advantageous in a certain environment and that other animal developped those eyes too, because they had a similar environment.
now at the tails, its the same: simply having a few humans with tails doesn't prove we inherited those from the apes. it does prove that humans have the genes for tails. Why do we have those genes? if a creator made those genes, why did he make them, but didnt use them? Didn't made the creator humans as his image? Does the creator have genes for a tail aswell, or does he have a tail? so much questions are rising if you believe someone "created" us.
science can't explain everything.. yet, but creatonism cant explain everything neither, imho, even less.
Edited by sywen, : No reason given.
Edited by sywen, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
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