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Author Topic:   why DID we evolve into humans?
Malachi-II
Member (Idle past 6243 days)
Posts: 139
From: Sussex, England
Joined: 04-10-2006


Message 211 of 231 (305165)
04-19-2006 8:30 AM
Reply to: Message 208 by AdminNosy
04-18-2006 8:49 PM


Re: Small warning...
Thank you for your gentle slap on the wrist. I didn’t deliberately try to stray off topic. Threads of thought seem to lead me in many directions. I’m not a single celled entity.
I have not been trained, nor am I paid, to think laterally. Perhaps the only thing I have in common with other participants in your forum is that I’m human (I think). Part of my humanity is being able to appreciate the value of apparently ”unreal’ emotions and stimuli. I must say, in passing, I wonder what pleasure some responders to my postings get from life since, for them, emotions apparently do not exist. Do they have any feelings? Are they real people, or intelligent computers without sensory perceptions?
Finally, may I respectfully say that I’m pleased to leave the nuts and bolts of Human Origins to the experts who have justly earned their spurs. I cannot, nor do I really wish, to contest their concrete conclusions. I simply hope they, like Professor Swimme, Director of the Center for the Story of the Universe at the University of Oregon, discover the pleasure of smelling flowers and registering the beauty in nature (of which, I think, we are a part?). In doing so, they might learn many important things about themselves that will never be discovered through practical science. Amen.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 208 by AdminNosy, posted 04-18-2006 8:49 PM AdminNosy has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 212 by AdminPhat, posted 04-19-2006 9:32 AM Malachi-II has replied

AdminPhat
Inactive Member


Message 212 of 231 (305195)
04-19-2006 9:32 AM
Reply to: Message 211 by Malachi-II
04-19-2006 8:30 AM


The rationale of discussion
Malachi, welcome to EvC. Not to discourage you, but I noticed while perusing the threads that you responded to Admin Modulous by addressing him as Percy and you responded to Admin Nosy when he was responding to Wepwawet!
When you read and respond to the posts in the thread, it is helpful to notice if the posts are addressed to you before responding to them!
Aside from that, I have nothing to say! Carry on!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 211 by Malachi-II, posted 04-19-2006 8:30 AM Malachi-II has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 213 by Malachi-II, posted 04-19-2006 10:32 AM AdminPhat has not replied

Malachi-II
Member (Idle past 6243 days)
Posts: 139
From: Sussex, England
Joined: 04-10-2006


Message 213 of 231 (305214)
04-19-2006 10:32 AM
Reply to: Message 212 by AdminPhat
04-19-2006 9:32 AM


Re: The rationale of discussion
Thank you, AdminPhat. I note your comments. I almost regret your permission to 'carry on'. It seems like a tacit invitation to confront issues that might offend others because I am not a qualified scientist. If you are implying that, as a human being, my emperical knowledge can claim some legitimacy in debate with more learned human beings, then I am humbly pleased by that recognition.
I believe that humans evolve because we have no option. The universe is constantly evolving. We, like it or not, are an intimate part of the universe and everything in it. We evolve because, if we did not, we would disappear. And, if we did disappear, in the fullness of time there would little trace of our having been here. Again. Thank you. I might join the fray!
This message has been edited by Malachi-II, 04-19-2006 10:33 AM

This message is a reply to:
 Message 212 by AdminPhat, posted 04-19-2006 9:32 AM AdminPhat has not replied

Malachi-II
Member (Idle past 6243 days)
Posts: 139
From: Sussex, England
Joined: 04-10-2006


Message 214 of 231 (305271)
04-19-2006 2:51 PM
Reply to: Message 202 by Wepwawet
04-17-2006 5:33 PM


Re: Why did we evolve?
Wepwawet. I had a gentle slap on the wrist from head office but my oxygen hasn't been cut off. So I want to reply more fully to your posting 202.
Quote: Capra seems obsessed with discovering some sort of uber-framework that will tie together all scientific knowledge. Personally I think he is more willing to bend the universe to fit his ideas than visa-versa.
If you bothered to read Dr Capra you will discover that he refers to an extensive bibliography. You might even learn something about evolution. However, you give the impression that physicists and cosmologists don’t know much about origins and evolution of life on earth or the cosmos.
Quote: You don’t expect people to understand the Bible from reading chick tracts (sic) don’t expect to understand science until you can follow the real documentation.
Oh, that’s such good advice for students of science. But, you see, the universe existed a little while before human intelligence evolved. Documentation is useful if one wants to become a scientist by profession. For some, who want to become more evolved as humans, science is merely one of countless disciplines that will prove useful. One need not be a scientist to observe, contemplate, experiment with and experience life to gain valuable knowledge of human existence. Documentation records information. I don’t need to read about what I have learned.
Why did we evolve as humans?
We had no choice if we wanted to survive. Does one need a science degree to understand that?
Quote: So I can boil all of these things down and get a glass of love out of them?
A fatuous remark. You apparently prefer the dark side of growth. You seem to be clinging to the mechanistic world view of Newton and Descartes.
Quote: And if there is no God what are we then?
Human beings. What else. We evolved from primordial mire along with other life forms that come and go. No big deal. Belief in God or otherwise has nothing to do with evolution. If someone chooses to believe that God created the world in six days (in our measurement of days) then they are irrational. Nobody can change their mind. Who would want to? Equally, no scientist, religionist, humanist or witch doctor will change my mind about what I know to be true. My truth does not come from documentation or experimentation. No higher degree is required to verify my truth. I’m willing to share my truth with anyone who is interested, but I sure as hell will not shove it down anyone’s throat as the ONLY truth. Religions tried that. People are beginning to think for themselves; to question; to analyse; to make use of slightly more than ten per cent of their evolving brains. I hope you catch up.
This message has been edited by Malachi-II, 04-19-2006 02:52 PM
This message has been edited by Malachi-II, 04-19-2006 02:54 PM

This message is a reply to:
 Message 202 by Wepwawet, posted 04-17-2006 5:33 PM Wepwawet has not replied

TheFonziszen
Inactive Member


Message 215 of 231 (305329)
04-19-2006 6:53 PM


STOP IT
i was just thinking - why did we evolve into the state we are in now-
To answer Tom's overwrought consciousness without prompting debate or critizing creationism, thinking is where you went wrong. You are ignorant in the fields in which, if you had the capacity to study, you would find answers that would prompt more coherent questions, in which more controversy about those answers would arise. This forum has existed for 3 years and I have just stumbled across it and to my dismay I witnessed, before my very eyes the gradual dissengration of a once noble race(not to scale). I have witnessed bitterness "care to elaborate which they were and i'll explain what i meant by them? thanks" to complete and utter ignorance "if we so wanted to do so many things that we can't in our natural state- why did we not just evolve them-such as wings to fly, gills to stay under water longer." Into even more pompous hubris, " have not seen some of this dren in a while. ..... This is absolute bull."
After having succumb to the overwhelming desire to post on a page where way too many people offer opinions and compare scrap books of memory and collected knowledge, I have to ask myself what my role is in this magnificient forum. reflecting..... i am sickened.
Those quotes i used above were from the first page. I blame Tom for opening up the airwaves with his poor ability to communicate linguistically, and if I were his teacher i would wash his mouth out for asking why with such frivolent, innocent but unnecessary passion.
This will most definantly come off as the pinnacle of pompous language but if i accomplish one thing, god willing, i will become the object of contempt, and like jesus on the cross, be able to stop you all from debating and unite you in a single cause.. "flaming" of me.
If you, in fact, feel united upon that one principle by me simultaneously "flaming" every single person that has spoken in response to Tom's why, that principle of hate.. and whatever your feelings after reading my post are, take a moment, read what began this crusade to answer ignorance with rationale.. both forms of human thought, that is Tom's ignorance.. levin's wisdom.. and the dissenting dissintegration from the origin thereof.
With a final quote.. a more up to date idea,
"And if there is no God what are we then?
DUHHHHH???

Replies to this message:
 Message 216 by Malachi-II, posted 04-20-2006 5:16 AM TheFonziszen has not replied
 Message 217 by AdminNWR, posted 04-20-2006 9:00 AM TheFonziszen has not replied

Malachi-II
Member (Idle past 6243 days)
Posts: 139
From: Sussex, England
Joined: 04-10-2006


Message 216 of 231 (305407)
04-20-2006 5:16 AM
Reply to: Message 215 by TheFonziszen
04-19-2006 6:53 PM


Re: STOP IT
Hello TheFonziszen,
I notice you posted from St Petersburg. I assume English is not your native tongue, therefore I will overlook your poor command of the language. Perhaps you too can be less critical of Tom’s lack of linguistic expertise. At least he had the courage to expose his ignorance to all the clever Dicks around the world. I don’t know what Tom’s age is or what his education has been up to now. But I respect his right to ask whatever questions he wishes.
I would hope, like yourself, that he and all others might receive cogent replies that, at the very least, will send him merrily on a quest for further information to satisfy his hunger for answers. There are many who have been on that same quest for millennia. We seem to have not yet reached the end of the quest. I have my own views about the destiny of our long suffering species, though I would not wish to further burden anyone as yet.
I think Tom asks why there is little consistency. My answer to him and anyone with a similar question is; “Constancy is the enemy of evolution.”
You seem too eager to be crucified for such a small error as intolerance.
Quote: “The only reasonable end in man’s unreasonable existence is god. You ask me do I believe in god? I believe he is dead.”
You completely lost me. Who asked if you believe in god? If you are saying that the end of man’s existence will be the ”grave’ along with god (if that is what you think) then I’m sorry. You give the impression of someone suffering from deep depression. If so, you are far from alone.
Regarding the death of God, A. N. Wilson wrote a book entitled ”God’s Funeral.’ To say he wrote a book on the subject is a slight misnomer. It largely consists of what others have concluded on the subject, including Vladimir Lenin and Karl Marx, to name but two.
My opinion, for what it’s worth, is that humans have developed an amazing ability to reason through subjective and objective processes of logic, etc. In short, we think. We also have the amazing ability, some say the right, to choose what we think and how to express ourselves. You might laugh, but that is one hell of a responsibility. One that is often taken lightly, with disastrous results.
So every thinking person who is living, and those who are not, can decide if God exists; never existed; is alive or dead. But consider this: would God give a damn what we think? If God is the Intelligent Designer of the universe, do you think for one moment the opinions of little men and women will have any bearing on evolution of the universe? Come on!
Many of our species, particularly some scientists, may believe they have the power of God. I think they are premature. We have a long way to go. Right now we are merely children of God. Evolution is far from complete.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 215 by TheFonziszen, posted 04-19-2006 6:53 PM TheFonziszen has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 218 by nwr, posted 04-20-2006 9:04 AM Malachi-II has not replied

AdminNWR
Inactive Member


Message 217 of 231 (305434)
04-20-2006 9:00 AM
Reply to: Message 215 by TheFonziszen
04-19-2006 6:53 PM


No trolling
Welcome to evcforum, TheFonziszen.
..., be able to stop you all from debating and unite you in a single cause.. "flaming" of me.
That sort of posting, intended to goad others into flaming, is an example of trolling.
We do not appreciate trolls at evcforum. Please keep focused, and stay on topic.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 215 by TheFonziszen, posted 04-19-2006 6:53 PM TheFonziszen has not replied

nwr
Member
Posts: 6408
From: Geneva, Illinois
Joined: 08-08-2005
Member Rating: 5.1


Message 218 of 231 (305435)
04-20-2006 9:04 AM
Reply to: Message 216 by Malachi-II
04-20-2006 5:16 AM


Quick OT note
I notice you posted from St Petersburg.
That was likely to be St. Petersburg, Florida, USA.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 216 by Malachi-II, posted 04-20-2006 5:16 AM Malachi-II has not replied

TheFonziszen
Inactive Member


Message 219 of 231 (305574)
04-20-2006 11:03 PM


Off Topic
Quote: “The only reasonable end in man’s unreasonable existence is god. You ask me do I believe in god? I believe he is dead.”
You completely lost me. Who asked if you believe in god? If you are saying that the end of man’s existence will be the ”grave’ along with god (if that is what you think) then I’m sorry.
Depression doesnt begin to describe the state I was in when I wrote the post. Despair would be better. To clarify, by saying god is the only reasonable end to man's unreasonable existence is an aphorism that asserts that when man found his existence to be unreasonable he invented god. In the chain of causation, through our reality and concept of time, the questions that seek reason go on forever, that is undeniable, IS IT NOT? It is ironic that you twisted my words with your metonymy, no.. you might be thinking, but my schizophrenic humor thinks it quaint.
First of all, that wasnt what i was thinking. The end of most men's existence is a grave, quite literally, but the aphorism was intended to declare subtlely, and existentially, the kind of hubris present on this site and through history is the kind of nonsense that metamorphosis into sense and then myth and that becomes fact and then turns into a belief and then a religion. The depression i feel when i look around is undeniable.. einstein said We cannot despair of humanity, since we ourselves are human beings. Though i know the despair is selfrighteous it is also based. The despair i feel towards the human condition is attributed partly to the war of faith that insues all over the world, every organized religion is founded upon simliar concepts yet not a one can claim truthfully to be tolerant, inside them all is some form of bigotry. In my eyes at this present moment, religions are failed sciences that attempted to methodize life and the experiences therein that are our only evidence of input. But im off topic again.
For you to claim that i believe man's fate is in the grave i frown that we are so misunderstood.
"If you are saying that the end of man’s existence will be the ”grave’ along with god"
To reveal the irony, man is digging and constructing his own grave, in his seeking nothingness(now take a second and realize the fatal error of most belief systems, their fatalism, even you yourself suffer from the sort of fatalism.."Many of our species, particularly some scientists, may believe they have the power of God. I think they are premature. We have a long way to go. Right now we are merely children of God. Evolution is far from complete. " far from complete.. this is the problem with IT all, the god presumption, yes we are evolving, yes we have an objective and subjective reasoning that is evolving, but all of the theologists see this evolution with a conclusion.. a level of existence that is pure energy(complete) and like jesus we will have the powers of god..these irrationalities form the wood and shovel that dig and construct the grave made by man for man that wont be of any use to the last man, who wont have anyone to place him within the eloquent grave, that houses man's eloquent body, in an eloquent way.
Basically, to weigh my opinion for what it is worth, nothing is written in stone, mankind can overcome, can prevail, and like we have in the past.. survive, but we cannot reach a level of existence where we no longer exist or where the many are one and the heaven is eternal, sorry you'll always come down rough off of your ecstasy trip(every action has an equal and opposite reaction)-that's newton, read the paper you'll clearly see some people choose hell and are 'happy'(modern man's absolute value), alongside lucifer, we are slowly growing away from self-centered ideals, as god is replaced with reason, the very reason god came onto the scene was because we lacked it.
So to Tom, ill offer some cogency, and a quote from a wise son of a bitch, "Worship the sun, because you can see it."-george carlin.
you said
"we no longer need to evolve as we just "invent" or make what we need" evolution hasnt always been productive, species go extinct, we are a species, we have created god in the image of ourselves, not the other way around, and i asked myself about what he would think about our opinions, the "opinions" you so lightly refer to are beliefs that have meant death as a reaction to the desire to hold onto those beliefs, or defend those beliefs. Noble, indeed, but stupid. Picture our species, dissected by a future "intelligent form of life" and think what they might say about the way we have been living for millenia.. "granted" the gift of reason, we cannot see the ability of our kin to reason, we accept as absolute our notions while trying to destroy the notions of our brothers. Billions believe that christ will walk the earth again and that he will take us away from this world into another.. They also prey upon the innocent and suffering to convert to their cause.. They find people who are willing to be raped for food, and slip the shaft of the cross in slow.. while if you turn the globe the arabs are suiciding for virgins, so convinced in the power of death that they'll end their life for the chance to devirginize a young woman. A common belief among these two groups is that life is a preparation for death.. the religions are living to die, these religions have existed for a long while.. now man has already noticeably evolved through our increased breeding into a homosapian with a much smaller frame, because like it has been said, we evolve towards what we need, with the comforts of this godgranted kingdom we dont need a strong frame to survive, genetics happens and it shrinks. My 'depressed' picture of man is a lifeform that has found intelligence.. reason.. and has harnessed it and while it harnessed it, it has conquered this planet, to fallback on a axiom, "power tends to corrupt, absolute power corrupts absolutely," so man is now granting himself absolute power as he creates a science for experience. If god has absolute power, and we seek god, to be in his image, to do as he has deemed right, then we are seeking power, and in seeking it we seek corruption. Now amorally, the christians are no better then the muslims, i open my arms for your response on my half coherent rantings.
"So every thinking person who is living, and those who are not, can decide if God exists; never existed; is alive or dead. But consider this: would God give a damn what we think? If God is the Intelligent Designer of the universe, do you think for one moment the opinions of little men and women will have any bearing on evolution of the universe? Come on!"
I dont, but many do, why else would they hold onto their beliefs? They think them necessary for survival. How can our opinions and beliefs.. that you have belittled... quite obnoxciously.. NOT have a bearing on the evolution of.. wait the universe? now what the fuck are you talking about? Back to that omnipotent existence of man.. NO it wont have any bearing on the evolutino of the universe.. jackass.. but it will definantly have a bearing on the survival or extinction of our species.. on the future evolution of our speices.. how can it not.. answer me that.. how can it not? You make those opinions out to be inconsequential.. well they are what we do now.. they are evolving, and we are evolving with them, because of them, alongside them, as a result of them? what does it matter?.. the universe is evolving.. SEPERATELY
On a more serious note.. i apologize to Tom for misguided feelings of despair.. also, i would like to restate the purpose of the original post and why i was so awe strucken into talking on a forum(something i havent done before), this particular topic, shows the small scale evolution of wonder gone wry, rationally posed questions with no rational answer, because rationale is a human characteristic. The posts on the page, over a 3 year period began as logical, then became more and more conjested and will continue to do so(my prediction), many questions were answered, and thoughts confirmed or expanded.. but the point is.. there is no point.. absolutely no point to a circle, look for one.. bet you cant find it, rape me.

Replies to this message:
 Message 220 by Malachi-II, posted 04-21-2006 12:56 PM TheFonziszen has not replied
 Message 227 by Malachi-II, posted 04-22-2006 4:32 AM TheFonziszen has not replied

Malachi-II
Member (Idle past 6243 days)
Posts: 139
From: Sussex, England
Joined: 04-10-2006


Message 220 of 231 (305685)
04-21-2006 12:56 PM
Reply to: Message 219 by TheFonziszen
04-20-2006 11:03 PM


Re: Off Topic
On Topic
Wow! You pack a punch, but it might help if you back off a bit. Semantics is a major barrier in communications. You might understand the pithy humour intended in your aphorism but, to someone who knows you not, it misses. I am prepared to debate your postings, but only if you show a modicum of respect to another human being in search of answers to many of the same questions you struggle with.
Your profile tells me nothing other than that you are a student. Your rage is clear from your ranting. I’ve been there, pal. I’ve done it! I’m nearing the end of a life that has asked all of your questions and more. I still lack answers but, believe me, I am not obnoxious nor a jackass. Ignorant I may be. But I have enough humility to respect other people’s opinions. I might even learn something. And I hope I’m still sane enough to reason.
I think you’re trying to hit too many targets at once. You’re in danger of missing them all.
Would you care to start with one pressing issue? May I suggest we debate religion? I will argue that religions are ALL manmade belief systems attempting to explain things we are unable to understand. I will argue that, if there is a God, he sure as hell did not devise belief systems that are corrosive, divisive and destructive in their struggle for power over those too ignorant to think for themselves. You might be interested in visiting Index of /
A radical view of religions!
Anyway, whoever you are, reply with politeness if you want to continue. If you want to be rude and superior, then fuck off.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 219 by TheFonziszen, posted 04-20-2006 11:03 PM TheFonziszen has not replied

TheFonziszen
Inactive Member


Message 221 of 231 (305712)
04-21-2006 3:34 PM


Thanks for the choices
Malachi, thanks for making my first experience on forums an enjoyable one, also thanks for offering me the options to be polite or fuck off, but they're both so appealing i dont know which to choose. You've helped me realize what i already knew, that is, my reason for posting. To explain ill just say.. that it is healthy to discuss freely the thoughts and opinions that flow through ones mind without complacency. We can agree that that is what i was doing.. because god knows i wasnt trying to be complaisant. And through this experience i better understand the benefits of such a forum and your delightful response has stifled the overwhelming superiority i feel over others on matters of metaphysics. I feel off the soap box and able to speak rationally, wonder how long that will last?
So for your proposed debate on religion.. that debate has been concluded and religion has lost, yet billions still remain faithful in irrational ideals. I read the story in that link you suggested and it is interesting enough. So how about a more interesting topic than that cliche. The origin of religion.
Martin Luther King wrote a great interpretive research paper on the origins of religion in the race. http://www.stanford.edu/group/King/publications/papers/vol1/...
The origin is irretrievably lost in the past but the foundatinos of which religions were established recur throughout almost every civilization. So picture early man, the homosapian, a naturally social being that lives in packs that were probably much similiar to wolves or apes of our present age. The packs existed in a time before religion.. before math, science, language, semantics or any established ideology.. therefore they were the ancestors of these ideologies and there actions, in essence, would decide on the future of the species. They were beasts, by our standards, that is undeniable. Animals.. that we are, that we forget we still are, because of nobility. So what I am getting at is simply the middle of two extremes, MLK's disavowance that no matter what crudeness religion originated, we should take it as it has become.. compared to this evolutionists view on the topic.. http://www.banned-books.com/...1994archive/121_1/ts211q.html
basically summing religion up as a gene that once was necessary but is now obsolete.
Since you have no idea who i am ill say one personal belief that me and those close to me share.. anyone who tries to force their beliefs upon another is unjust.. My personal problem with religion is the fact that they have become congolmerates of faith.. all over the world.. people recruit like the military.. and they establish a business like organization..
But im plagued with the idea that.. well.. like all businesses.. they exist for a reason.. if the product wasnt desired.. there would be no business.. no profit.. They would go out of business if there wasn't a clientele.. In my mind this is rooted in the existence of suffering, starvation, and inequality. Religion is no cure.. it is an opium for those who are neglected.. or those who are addicted.. an attempt.. many attempts at a cure.. but it is something we are developing away from.. but desperately holding onto.. hell we're having to create new forms of it in scientology just to feed the addictions we have caused.
I respect your replys to my despair malachi but save me your apathy.. Hope this post winds you up a little bit
{Shortened display form of 1 URL, to restore page width to normal. - Adminnemooseus}
This message has been edited by Adminnemooseus, 04-21-2006 08:39 PM

TheFonziszen
Inactive Member


Message 222 of 231 (305724)
04-21-2006 3:55 PM


Malachi -- C&E united
"C&E United
I would like to debate the proposition that creation and evolution are two concepts of an inseparable reality. I will argue that, whilst it is important to recognize the essential role of every iota, it is vitally important to understand and demonstrate the function of creation and evolution. I will argue that human intelligence has evolved for that purpose; that we are at one with the cosmos; and in knowing that, is what sets us free. "
as i am about to write a paper on existentialism for a course.. your proclamation reminds me of an existentialist philosophy. It seems to me that no matter where you go, in the world of argument and discussion, there is some form of prejudice encircling it all. The prejudices feed upon one another.
What you say about being at one with the cosmos.. it makes me think two things.. first of all.. i think it silly and damn near gay. The other thing i think is a sort of reflection.. the cosmos.. what we know if it.. is only what we can perceive of it.. that infinite universe is our perception of it.. from this planet.. and think of how that has changed. no doubt im not giving you new information in saying we once thought that we were the center of it all.. and now cosmology has convinced some people we're not.. but yet it exists, trust me, it exists those people who deny that.. and from the point im taking right now.. good for them for not being complacent. Because, i know im contradicting myself, all we know of the universe is our perception of it.. death is the loss of one perception.. and since i have just recently read 1984, i realized how important it is to hold on to your individual perception and to be true to it through whatever fears are imposed upon you, death or torture to name a few.
So if one truely accepts the subjectivity of the human reality.. and in saying that accepts the objectivity of realizing the subjectivity of the human reality.. then truth is lost in the abscurity of this paradox and creationism and evolution are already one.
To further probe my own standpoint.. that contradicts what brought me here.. is the necessity of tolerance.. what if there sprung a third objective belief.. that incorporated creationism and evolution.. this world doesn't need another scientology.. and to fall back on what brought me to this forums.. is the feeling that everything i hate about mankind's condition is a result of forums like this, not the forum itself but the grouping of people discussing abstract reality..
but to refute that with the reveleation you helped me to attain.. a revelation that i only verbalized because i already knew it(some mysticism for you) my true problem is the coming to a conclusion and this forum is evolving.. not towards a definite end.. that.. is where religion's creaitonism went wrong in my opinion, evolution has claimed no end.. has creationism in itself? im a little ignorant
windin up?

Replies to this message:
 Message 223 by iano, posted 04-21-2006 8:10 PM TheFonziszen has not replied
 Message 228 by Malachi-II, posted 04-22-2006 7:04 AM TheFonziszen has not replied

iano
Member (Idle past 1940 days)
Posts: 6165
From: Co. Wicklow, Ireland.
Joined: 07-27-2005


Message 223 of 231 (305781)
04-21-2006 8:10 PM
Reply to: Message 222 by TheFonziszen
04-21-2006 3:55 PM


Re: Malachi -- C&E united
what if there sprung a third objective belief.
Hi Fonz. Welcome to EvC
I haven't fully read through what you wrote. It's late and I'm off to bed. But on this one snippet let me ask you if you could point out any objective belief, never mind 3 of them.
iano

This message is a reply to:
 Message 222 by TheFonziszen, posted 04-21-2006 3:55 PM TheFonziszen has not replied

Adminnemooseus
Administrator
Posts: 3974
Joined: 09-26-2002


Message 224 of 231 (305799)
04-21-2006 8:52 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by tomwillrep
06-21-2003 9:32 PM


Topic drift alert!
I'm not sure where this topic currently is, but I have a pretty good suspicion that it is well off the intended theme of the topic.
Repeating message 1 of this topic:
i was just thinking - why did we evolve into the state we are in now-
i've read topics saying that we no longer need to evolve as we just "invent" or make what we need - such as to fly we created planes, to help with bad eye-sight we made glasses, to combat disease we invented cures.
why did we need to evolve into humans (if you believe that we did). what do apes NOT have that they needed to become humans - and if it is they needed ability to talk - why did they just not have voice boxes as they are now - if it is because they wanted to walk upright - why?!
why did we even evolve into apes from the creatures we "were" before - if we originally were underwater creatures why was there earth and why did we leave the water, also why have we not stayed consistent in being able to do things that past "ancestors" were able to do - from apes to the first origin?!
views on this would be appreciated
Perhaps not the best point of reference to try to drag this thing back on topic, but there it is.
People, this is the "Human Origins" forum. The discussion should be about the biology of the human species.
Adminnemooseus
This message has been edited by Adminnemooseus, 04-21-2006 08:54 PM

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This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by tomwillrep, posted 06-21-2003 9:32 PM tomwillrep has not replied

TheFonziszen
Inactive Member


Message 225 of 231 (305806)
04-21-2006 9:14 PM


OK
"I haven't fully read through what you wrote. It's late and I'm off to bed. But on this one snippet let me ask you if you could point out any objective belief, never mind 3 of them."
an objective belief.. you ask me that as if objective beliefs dont exist, or if im using some sort of oxymoron?
Creationism is objective, evolution is objective, the idea of merging creationism with evolution and forming a union by educating people in both, and the advantages of both; teaching the educational value in creationism and evolution, evolutionism if you will... would be the third objective belief. if you need further elaboration i will cooperate but just read more thoroughly or open a dictionary

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