The evolution of religion?

IIRC, there is evidence that Neandertals buried thier dead, implying religious belief. And since they are not a direct ancestor, that shows that religion did evolve on seperate occasions.Therefore, god must exist (just kidding).

Well you wouldn't have to bury it for that and, IIRC, they were buried with ornaments n'stuff, like in a ceremony.

Burn it.Or throw it in the bog. Or eat it (if recently dead). Or let another animal eat it. You can't think of any? Maybe I think the ceremony and ritual, whether enjoyed or not, imply religious belief. Without the religious belief, its just a bunch of unnecessary crap, well even with the religious belief it is a bunch of unnecessary crap but not to the poeple doing the rituals. There is a reason for the ritual. Most likely, it is religious belief but it could be something else. Just for the fun of it? Is that what your saying?Do you honestly think that the Neandertals had no religious beliefs?Why would they bury stuff with a dead body?

It doesn't matter if they did. They could burn a hundred bodies and then bury one with religious ritual and that would suffice to say that the Neandertals had religious beliefs. Of course we don't know for sure, but as you say, there is evidence that they might have. We might assume that they did for a premise in an argument about the evolution of religion. But aside from that and just looking at the evidence, it looks like they did have religious beliefs, IIRC. Its unneccessary and there's better ways to use things than throwing them away. Your turn. Why would they?

It would say that it evolved more that once and independently. I haven't thought much about the implications of this. Here's what I was replying too: It could comfirm that god and religion were widely spread, that they were an old idea, not unique or attributed to humans, and also that it evolved on seperate occasions in different places for different reasons.What do you think the implication is? Does religion fit into that category?

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From Message 46How is that so different from religion? Is it because the comforter doesn't believe what they are saying that makes it not religion? If the comforter does believe it, does that make it religion? That's probably one of many sources. Religion is ritual but ritual is not neccessarily religion. But rituals that have no practical purpose are religion, aren't they? Can you think of an example of a ritual that has no practical purpose and is not religous?

I don't see any reason why they wouldn't. (well, there's always goddidit ) Well I'm using "religions" pretty loosely in this thread. If the Neandertals didn't believe in gods or spirits, but had a mysticism - or any other made up stuff - behind their burials, then I would call that "religion". Albeit a very primitive form of it. Ok, I think we are defining "religion" a little differently. I don't mean that they have to believe in gods for it to be a religion. Any non-practical ritual could be considered a religion, IMHO.Where do we draw the line on where primitive rituals get to be called religion?From what I've seen - and I'm relying on memory - the Neandertal's primitive rituals should be on the religion side of that line. I'd like to research some of the evidence - in my copious amounts of free time - and get a better idea. But, from what I remember, there are Neandertal burial sites with ornaments and other indications of rituals that suggest that they were practicing some kind of religion.And what are the implications if religion arrose in an unrelated species, independently, from purely supernaturalistic reasons, rather than from some sort of coping mechanism, or deranged leader? Isn't there a perceived practicality for the compulsive behavior?

How so certain?If god really does exists and prescribed religion to man, then it wouldn't be delusion at all, would it? I'm not really all that interested, sorry. I was just looking for Ringo's opinion and perhaps setting him up for a good joke I wasn't really looking for a deep answer to discuss.

I saw a Hippo mother stay near her dead baby in the same manner on a National Geographic program. It wasn't so obvious for the hippo I wonder what kind of instinct could yield that behavior. Good point. Even if they didn't believe in the rituals, it might stick around just because it makes them feel better.

That's a good spot. Because its impractical and unnecessary. After removing all other reasons we are left with religion. I'm not saying that this (the Neadertals having religion) is definitively so, just that it is a resonable conclusion.Assuming they buried their dead in a ritual with ornaments, "religion" is a fine conclusion for the reason for the behavior. We can think up other non-religious reasons too, but why are they more plausible?If it looks and sounds like a duck.... we shouldn't call it something else jsut because we don't want to call it a duck. It'd be difficult and we could never get to purely, but I suppose there's archeaologists who are qualified to label their reasons. They've done more with less I don't know. Anything?I'd bet that they know something.

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In the context of OCD, if a person washed their hands 10 times to avoid getting sick, in actuallity, there is no practical reason for all the extra washing. But in their mind, it is practical. That perceived practicality makes their ritual non-religious, even if it was, ultimately, impractical.How's that?

You don't. Reasonably? To you: I can't. To me: it doesn't seem as plausible as religion. True. Like I said. Its not definitive, but its reasonable, IMHO. Come on now, I'm not confirming bias under every rock. The Neandertals seem to have behaved, to me, in a way that suggests they had religious - albeit primitive - beliefs. Its not that big of a deal that I feel the need to eliminate every other possibility before I conclude this one. Its plausible to me. Actually, now that I've thought about it more. Religion has a perceived practicallity, so by my definition, that would make religion not religion Whoops, oh well.Have a nice night, Ringo. Thanks for typin'. I'm off.