center of the earth

Nope. Your ignorance is leading you astray ... yet again. It's certain.Gravity exists and is observed, and acts in one certain way on Earth, on other planets in the Solar System, throughout the Solar System, in our Galaxy, in the local cluster of galaxies, and so on up at all scales. Gravity is caused solely by mass¹. Gravity acts in one and only one way, which is described by Newton's law of universal gravitation². These facts are certain and rock-solid.We are far from certain as to why gravity acts the way it does. We are far from certain what the fundamental source of gravity is (knowing that only mass causes gravity doesn't tell us why only mass causes gravity). We don't know why inertial mass and gravitational mass are exactly the same. And we don't know why our equations don't give us the right answers when we try to apply them to the incredibly tiny subatomic world in which quantum mechanics is king.But, since the Earth (or any portion thereof that we are considering in this thread) is unimaginably too big to be subject to noticable quantum effects, and we don't have to know why our equations work in order to know that they do work in almost all situations and in order to know the very few and irrelevant (to this thread) situations in which they do not work, all our lack of understanding is irrelevant to this thread.--------------
¹General Relativity shows that in the absence of any other information measurements of the forces caused by acceleration are indistingushable from gravitational forces, and this is a profound equivalence; but in the real world we have lots of other information that we can use to distinguish the two.²In extreme circumstances Newton's law is a little bit off, and we need to use General Relativity instead, but such extreme cases never arise on or in the vicinity of Earth.

Er, yes it has, just not in this thread.First, those "dips and bulges" are not physical dips and bulges. The height of a bulge above the surface on the maps indicates the gravitational force that is measured and is in excess of the gravitational force expected if the Earth were uniformly dense, and the dips are the same except there's a deficit rather than an excess.Second, it should be intuitively obvious to the most casual oberver that such asymmetric patterns could not be caused by symmetric rotation.Third, the efects of rotation are well understood, and are subtracted out before those maps are made. The increase in gravitation force at the Equator due to the Equatorial bulge caused by the Earth's rotation is much larger than the effects shown in those maps. They didn't bother to explicitly say that's waht they did (although I bet they do somewhere deep inside the real scientific papers) because it's so obvious to the scientists who are their main audience.

Not by faith, by evidence.Learning about all the evidence and all the details is a subject for a lifetime, not for one thread on this board. Nonetheless, a very little bit of the evidence has been presented already.If you think that any claims we have made are based solely on faith, ask for details and supporting evidence. Supplying such evidence on request is part of the forum rules, and the one that is most often ignored by your ilk.

Wow. Pretty devious stuff. As for me, I honestly believe that there is a spirit world, and that the earth was created some 6 thousand years ago. But thanks for the post, at least now I can see what it is, if people accuse me of it.

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If you think that any claims we have made are based solely on faith

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Come on now, faith in interpretation, faith in the competence of experiments, faith in evolutionary old age time frames as a given starting point, etc. I think there is some measure of faith involved, this doesn't mean overall there isn't a mountain of evidence as well for some things, or that everything is all wrong, or that there is no gravity. But some things here I have been given assurances for, but not yet the reasoning, and proof. If assurances are of merit here, that bodes well for me, the bible is stuffed with them, lets allow them, and I'll bring some in too.(Oh, yes, Razd, I meant to mention in in my last post, I lost my password, and can't even remember what free email I used when posting as Arkathon. So, your prophesy was right! Can we allow prophesy on here too now, that would work well for me as well! ha) Hope that wasn't 'trolling'.

OK. But the bottom line on that whole score, it seems to me, is still, as the link (I think it was you that gave it?) said. Namely that the results are utterly dependant on other data, chiefly, seismic waves. Also, even if they could stand alone, which they cannot, what would this tell us? Can you simplify it, is it mainly just that it is or isn't uniformly dense appearing?

You don't think the fact that these things are constantly double- and triple-checked by built-in scientific opposition, and even then, are taken tentatively, rather displays the lack of faith we put into those things?If someone came up to you and said "I think this is true, but I'd like you and your friends to check, and even if you come up with the same results I did, we might all find out we're wrong later," wouldn't you think that guy had a lot less faith - possibly none at all - in what he thought was true? Certainly a lot less than the guy that says "this must be true because a book said so."I don't know how you could come up with a system of knowledge any less based on faith than science. Faith is how you believe in the things for which there is no evidence. Your statements just aren't coherent with any definition of faith that I'm aware of.

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Gravity exists and is observed

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Agreed, of course.

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1. Gravity acts in one and only one way, which is described by Newton's law of universal gravitation...("1General Relativity shows that in the absence of any other information measurements of the forces caused by acceleration are indistingushable from gravitational forces, and this is a profound equivalence; but in the real world we have lots of other information that we can use to distinguish the two.")

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Isn't this saying some conditions (acceleration) we can't tell the difference between gravity, and the other force? Now, of course it has been assumed, that nothing near earth would be affected by anything like this, or similar. But what about, I am trying to determine, in the center of the earth? No one qustions gravity, or at least something (even if we can't distinguish whether it is gravity or some other force), works in a predictable way!
My concern is, since we know so little about the inner region, how is it nothing similar could be at work there?
From a biblical standpoint, the earth is eternal, after all, which tends to lead me in the direction of the spiritual forces, and component, when we think of everlasting! After all, physical things are not forever. The upper portion of the earth, we know will pass away, because it is said it will be burned (surface), and totally remade into a paradise. This is why I look at the surface part as different than the interior.

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Faith is how you believe in the things for which there is no evidence

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It is admitted we really don't know a lot about the center of the earth, really. Also admitted is that gravity is not fully understoo. All that remains, then is to see if we can interpret things in the best way. If we have faith in our interpretations of the evidence, say we lean to the string theory, or alternate dimension (s), or quantum theory, it doesn't mean we disregard evidence. In my case, I try to balance it with what is known about a spirit world, as well, if possible.

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From a biblical standpoint, the earth is eternal, after all, which tends to lead me in the direction of the spiritual forces, and component, when we think of everlasting! After all, physical things are not forever. The upper portion of the earth, we know will pass away, because it is said it will be burned (surface), and totally remade into a paradise. This is why I look at the surface part as different than the interior.

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The faith forums are that way.....If you want to believe that, good luck to you. It had nothing at all to do with science and had no place in this discussion.

We don't know a lot about cancer, either, but that doesn't change the fact that people are dying from it. The solution isn't to stop building hospitals; it's to build more schools. Again, faith is that which is believed in the absence of evidence. We have evidence that our interpretations are accurate; namely, that the predictions based on them tend to come true. Hence, because we have evidence, we need have no faith. The problem is that nothing is known about the spirit world, because to know, you have to have evidence. You confuse faith with evidence, which is why you accuse us of faith and exalt yourself as knowing, when in fact the positions are reversed. You're the only one here who needs faith.

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It is admitted we really don't know a lot about the center of the earth, really.

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What does the Bible say about the center of the earth? What do the spirits say?What methodology should we use for discovering new things about the center of the earth? Science or meditation?

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All that remains, then is to see if we can interpret things in the best way. If we have faith in our interpretations of the evidence, say we lean to the string theory, or alternate dimension (s), or quantum theory, it doesn't mean we disregard evidence.

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Why do you need faith in your interpretation? Either it's consistent with the evidence or it isn't. If we have faith in our interpretation, then we test it with objective evidence and allow others to test it as well. Depending on spirit realms does the opposite, it removes the possibility of testing any idea and instead relies on faith in non-existent evidence instead of faith in our interpretations. Scientists do have faith in that they are interpreting things correctly, but that faith is due to the stringent testing that goes into scientific theories. It is the same faith that you exercise when you press on your brake pedal. You can't know if the car will actually stop or not, but you have faith that it will because of the evidence of previous tests. This is quite different than religious faith, where the outcome is never known and the evidence for the cause is never evidenced. For example, would you pray to God to stop your car or press the brake pedal?

umthat is part of the general problem eh?

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It is admitted we really don't know a lot about the center of the earth, really.

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We don't know a lot about cancer, either

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Yes we could list other things we also don't know a lot about, should we desire to do so. The thing is, when we make assumptions about things like that, that translate into old age reasoning, and teach children the same, it needs to be shown for what it is.

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Again, faith is that which is believed in the absence of evidence. We have evidence that our interpretations are accurate; namely, that the predictions based on them tend to come true

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And in many areas it is true. For some of them, it seems fairly selective as to what are desired, and sought after interpretaions, to the exclusion of others.

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The problem is that nothing is known about the spirit world

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Not true. We know far more about the spirit world than the center of the earth! For that matter, I suppose we could be talking about the same thing here. Anyhow, physics can't detect spirits, and evidence for them, and their world is not admissable, since we are 'detection challenged'. [quote]You're the only one here who needs faith.[/qquote] No, I already have that. What I need is evidence.

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What does the Bible say about the center of the earth? What do the spirits say?

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I can't answer you here, on the grounds that it would be considered off topic.

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What methodology should we use for discovering new things about the center of the earth?

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Whether we find new things or not, we're trying to have a look at what we do have, and what it means.

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Why do you need faith in your interpretation?

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Because if the interpretaion of limited evidence is not conclusive, and you pick one of several possible answers, you would need a little faith, in luei of proof, yours was more correct, or the only correct one.

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Scientists do have faith in that they are interpreting things correctly, but that faith is due to the stringent testing that goes into scientific theories. It is the same faith that you exercise when you press on your brake pedal. You can't know if the car will actually stop or not, but you have faith that it will because of the evidence of previous tests

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I will admit if I drove down there, at least my brakes would get hot. But since we can't, we were looking at things like how density is or is not the only thing that could produce 'gravity', or something the same.
Here are a few of the other things we touched on so far.
(unchallenged so far) That heat from continents sliding in catostrophic flood time could aprox account for obseved heat on earth.( Not established) That heat is a certainty in earth center (no indication yet it could not be cold, or tepid)density. no proof other than we think thats gow gravity works.waves. no proof they could not be interpreted otherwise (except assumed density)(established) Attendance of a patriots game by Joe, and his love of scienceno proof borders of inner earth zones are not hulls (except assumed densityAs far as other forces or factors, -- not addressedAdmission that gravity law is uncertain (So, then the entire formula depends on our understanding of gravity)Sattelite given as evidence turns out actually the data is utterly dependant on secondary things, mainly waves!
These aren't spiritual, so much, I think. If spiritual was included, the end of any arguement anyone here could mount, I predict, would be fairly swift.