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Author Topic:   Relativity is wrong...
Huntard
Member (Idle past 2295 days)
Posts: 2870
From: Limburg, The Netherlands
Joined: 09-02-2008


(1)
Message 63 of 633 (517168)
07-30-2009 3:04 AM
Reply to: Message 62 by Smooth Operator
07-30-2009 2:57 AM


At the risk of going insane....
Smooth Operator writes:
How does this test give evidence for relativty? That's my question.
Because it proves that the prediction made with relativity is true.
No, because we can see that the grass is green. We can't see the Earth orbiting the Sun, now can we?
Of course we can. Just leave the gravitational pull of the Earth and sit still in space, you'll see the Earth moving around the sun.

I hunt for the truth

This message is a reply to:
 Message 62 by Smooth Operator, posted 07-30-2009 2:57 AM Smooth Operator has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 68 by Smooth Operator, posted 07-30-2009 3:55 AM Huntard has replied

  
Huntard
Member (Idle past 2295 days)
Posts: 2870
From: Limburg, The Netherlands
Joined: 09-02-2008


(1)
Message 69 of 633 (517176)
07-30-2009 4:07 AM
Reply to: Message 68 by Smooth Operator
07-30-2009 3:55 AM


Smooth Operator writes:
Which are based only on a mathematical abstraction, not real observable casues. Curved space is not an observational cause, it is only infered.
You can't see "spacetime", if that's what you mean, you can however see the effects of curved spacetime.
Great, how do you propose we make this experiment happen?
How about with a spaceship?...

I hunt for the truth

This message is a reply to:
 Message 68 by Smooth Operator, posted 07-30-2009 3:55 AM Smooth Operator has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 70 by Smooth Operator, posted 07-30-2009 4:55 AM Huntard has replied

  
Huntard
Member (Idle past 2295 days)
Posts: 2870
From: Limburg, The Netherlands
Joined: 09-02-2008


(1)
Message 71 of 633 (517182)
07-30-2009 5:06 AM
Reply to: Message 70 by Smooth Operator
07-30-2009 4:55 AM


Smooth Operator writes:
You are just interpreting observed events as the effects of curved space. You don't know it's curved space really doing it. Because you never even saw curved space!
Like I said, you can't see spacetime. But how else would we be able to see stars that are behind the sun if not because of curved spacetime?
What about it? From which reference frame will you be looking at the Earth?
From inside the ship, of course. Or outside of it, in a spacesuit.
If you pick the Earth you will see the Sun orbiting it. If you pick the Sun, you will see Earth orbiting it. So what do you do then?
What do you mean? You're not moving at all. Just sitting still in space. What you will see is all the planets orbitting the sun, including the Earth.

I hunt for the truth

This message is a reply to:
 Message 70 by Smooth Operator, posted 07-30-2009 4:55 AM Smooth Operator has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 107 by Smooth Operator, posted 08-01-2009 7:31 PM Huntard has replied

  
Huntard
Member (Idle past 2295 days)
Posts: 2870
From: Limburg, The Netherlands
Joined: 09-02-2008


(1)
Message 79 of 633 (517220)
07-30-2009 10:56 AM
Reply to: Message 77 by Perdition
07-30-2009 10:14 AM


Perdition writes:
Or am I completely misunderstanding parts of relativity here?
Yes. For it is relativity that states that larger masses curve spacetime more than smaller masses. So, the sun will curve spacetime more than earth, and so the earth orbits the sun.
Edited by Huntard, : Spellings

I hunt for the truth

This message is a reply to:
 Message 77 by Perdition, posted 07-30-2009 10:14 AM Perdition has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 81 by Perdition, posted 07-30-2009 11:33 AM Huntard has replied

  
Huntard
Member (Idle past 2295 days)
Posts: 2870
From: Limburg, The Netherlands
Joined: 09-02-2008


(1)
Message 86 of 633 (517239)
07-30-2009 1:21 PM
Reply to: Message 81 by Perdition
07-30-2009 11:33 AM


Perdition writes:
It's simpler to just say the wheel is spinning around the hub, but aside from the simpler math, is there any objective reason to say one over the other?
Yes. For then you would have to explain why in ALL other instances, things would orbit more massive things, EXCEPT in the case of the Earth. I don't think that can be explained with math (I might be wrong thoug, I'm no math wiz)

I hunt for the truth

This message is a reply to:
 Message 81 by Perdition, posted 07-30-2009 11:33 AM Perdition has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 87 by Perdition, posted 07-30-2009 1:49 PM Huntard has not replied

  
Huntard
Member (Idle past 2295 days)
Posts: 2870
From: Limburg, The Netherlands
Joined: 09-02-2008


(1)
Message 151 of 633 (517679)
08-02-2009 4:43 AM
Reply to: Message 107 by Smooth Operator
08-01-2009 7:31 PM


Smooth Operator writes:
Oh, I don't know, maybe because gravity bends light?
Except of course that it doesn't.
And is your ship orbitin the Earth, or is it orbiting the Sun, or is it static relative to something else?
It is stationary to both the Earth and the Sun. You will see the Sun moving about the galaxy, and the Earth and all other planets orbiting the Sun.
Well that's the problem. How do you know you are stiing still in space. You are still relative to what?
To the Earth and the Sun. Have you found an explanation though for when your theory is true that why in ALL other instances objects are orbiting more massive objects?

I hunt for the truth

This message is a reply to:
 Message 107 by Smooth Operator, posted 08-01-2009 7:31 PM Smooth Operator has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 162 by Smooth Operator, posted 08-02-2009 10:43 AM Huntard has replied
 Message 194 by RAZD, posted 08-03-2009 7:08 PM Huntard has not replied

  
Huntard
Member (Idle past 2295 days)
Posts: 2870
From: Limburg, The Netherlands
Joined: 09-02-2008


(1)
Message 176 of 633 (517762)
08-02-2009 1:02 PM
Reply to: Message 162 by Smooth Operator
08-02-2009 10:43 AM


Smooth Operator writes:
It does in both Newtonian mechanics and in general relativity. So what kind of physics are you using?
No, it doesn't it curves spacetime, which is what light follows.
Can't be. If Earth and the Sun are rotating relative to each other, your ship can't be stationary relative to both.
Yes it can. Like I said, you will see the sun moving about the galaxy, and the earth and all other planets orbiting the sun. What makes you think that can't be observed? What is you evidence for it?
I told you, that is not possible. In my theory more massive objects do not need to rotate around more massive ones.
That's a weird sentence. I think you mean that objects do not need to orbit more massive objects. Would you care to explain then this is what we see ALL the time, EVERY time?

I hunt for the truth

This message is a reply to:
 Message 162 by Smooth Operator, posted 08-02-2009 10:43 AM Smooth Operator has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 189 by Smooth Operator, posted 08-03-2009 6:32 PM Huntard has replied

  
Huntard
Member (Idle past 2295 days)
Posts: 2870
From: Limburg, The Netherlands
Joined: 09-02-2008


(1)
Message 215 of 633 (518086)
08-03-2009 11:44 PM
Reply to: Message 189 by Smooth Operator
08-03-2009 6:32 PM


Smooth Operator writes:
The same thing predicted in Newtonian mechanics (NM), but NM doesn't use space-time paradigm.
And?
No it can not. You can be stationary to one rotating object. But you can't be stationary to both objects that are rotating one around each other. It's a logical fallacy.
Heh, do you even know what a logical fallacy is? Try this experiment: Make object A (the sun) orbit a fictional point on your floor (the centre of the universe), then make object B (the earth) orbit object A. You're telling me you can't see them both orbiting different points? Weird assumption, and not based on reality at all.
And where exactly do we see this?
Everywhere we look. We see moons orbiting the planets, we see planets orbiting stars, except, in your case, the earth. What's your explanation for this? Why is the earth the only object in the universe not orbiting a more massive object, yet a more massive object is orbiting it?

I hunt for the truth

This message is a reply to:
 Message 189 by Smooth Operator, posted 08-03-2009 6:32 PM Smooth Operator has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 219 by Smooth Operator, posted 08-04-2009 12:11 AM Huntard has not replied

  
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