Register | Sign In


Understanding through Discussion


EvC Forum active members: 64 (9164 total)
3 online now:
Newest Member: ChatGPT
Post Volume: Total: 916,760 Year: 4,017/9,624 Month: 888/974 Week: 215/286 Day: 22/109 Hour: 3/2


EvC Forum ⇒ Social and Religious Issues ⇒ Bible Study ⇒

Is the bible authoritive and truly inspired?

Thread ▼ Details

Email This Thread
Newer Topic | Older Topic
  
RewPrev1...1920212223...26Next
Author Topic:   Is the bible authoritive and truly inspired?
John 10:10
Member (Idle past 3021 days)
Posts: 766
From: Mt Juliet / TN / USA
Joined: 02-01-2006

John 10:10 Posts Only
Message 301 of 386 (577808)
08-30-2010 1:48 PM 		Reply to: Message 297 by ringo
08-30-2010 12:13 PM

Re: Source of Authority, Source of Inspiration
quote:
Then why not eliminate the Holy Spirit as an authority on interpretation? You seem to be claiming that we need the Holy Spirit to verify what the Bible says and we need the Bible to verify what the Holy Spirit says. In the world of charlatans, the Holy Spirit would be the shill, the one who says, "Yes, it's true! I was healed by Professor Marvel's Magic Snake Oil Elixir!"
Yes, you need the Holy Spirit to lead you to the foot of the cross where salvation is found in the Lord Jesus Christ.
​
Yes, you need the Holy Spirit to lead you in paths of righteousness in Christ Jesus after you find God's salvation.
​
It's as simple and as difficuly as that!
​
Peace
This message is a reply to:
 Message 297 by ringo, posted 08-30-2010 12:13 PM ringo has replied
Replies to this message:
 Message 302 by ringo, posted 08-30-2010 2:07 PM John 10:10 has replied
ringo
Member (Idle past 438 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005

ringo Posts Only
Message 302 of 386 (577813)
08-30-2010 2:07 PM 		Reply to: Message 301 by John 10:10
08-30-2010 1:48 PM

Re: Source of Authority, Source of Inspiration
John 10:10 writes:
​
Yes, you need the Holy Spirit to lead you to the foot of the cross where salvation is found in the Lord Jesus Christ.
​
Yes, you need the Holy Spirit to lead you in paths of righteousness in Christ Jesus after you find God's salvation.
But the topic is the Bible and my question is: Why do we need both? If the Bible was authoritative and truly inspired and if its message was as simple and changeless as you claim, why can't it be the only source?
​
Clearly, it isn't authoritative and truly inspired if it can't lead us in the paths of righteousness without outside help.
​
Life is like a Hot Wheels car. Sometimes it goes behind the couch and you can't find it.
This message is a reply to:
 Message 301 by John 10:10, posted 08-30-2010 1:48 PM John 10:10 has replied
Replies to this message:
 Message 304 by John 10:10, posted 08-31-2010 9:30 AM ringo has replied
purpledawn
Member (Idle past 3483 days)
Posts: 4453
From: Indiana
Joined: 04-25-2004

purpledawn Posts Only
Message 303 of 386 (577829)
08-30-2010 4:32 PM 		Reply to: Message 300 by John 10:10
08-30-2010 1:43 PM

Re: Source of Authority, Source of Inspiration
quote:
And I've explained to you over and over that the principles of God's salvation that are in Christ Jesus that are in today's Bibles have not changed since they were witten many hundreds of years ago.
​
They work today just like they worked then, for those God is calling to Himself.
Unfortunately you don't know that.
​
As I showed in Message 276, the author of Luke doesn't approach Jesus' death as atonement for sin. In Luke's writing Jesus' death makes people realize their guilt before God and then they repent. Once they repent, then God forgives their sins. Luke 16:30
​
You know as well as I do that when one is selling Christianity, they aren't selling the principles. They are selling a belief that Jesus died to atone for our sins or variations thereof. The principles are not the hook.
​
To say the principles haven't changed, means you need to show what the specific principles are and that they haven't been changed from the oldest NT manuscripts. Show or refer to research that supports what you're saying.
​
My comments are based on the research by Bart D. Ehrman.
This message is a reply to:
 Message 300 by John 10:10, posted 08-30-2010 1:43 PM John 10:10 has replied
Replies to this message:
 Message 305 by John 10:10, posted 08-31-2010 9:34 AM purpledawn has seen this message but not replied
John 10:10
Member (Idle past 3021 days)
Posts: 766
From: Mt Juliet / TN / USA
Joined: 02-01-2006

John 10:10 Posts Only
Message 304 of 386 (577977)
08-31-2010 9:30 AM 		Reply to: Message 302 by ringo
08-30-2010 2:07 PM

Re: Source of Authority, Source of Inspiration
quote:
But the topic is the Bible and my question is: Why do we need both? If the Bible was authoritative and truly inspired and if its message was as simple and changeless as you claim, why can't it be the only source?
​
Clearly, it isn't authoritative and truly inspired if it can't lead us in the paths of righteousness without outside help.
(1) We need the Bible to reveal God's plan of salvation for man in our Lord Jesus Christ.
​
(2) We need the Spirit who draws sinner man to God's salvation.
​
(3) We need the Spirit of the Lord to lead us in paths of righteousness for His name's sake.
​
Why do we need both the Bible source and inside help?
​
Because God designed His salvation plan that way!
This message is a reply to:
 Message 302 by ringo, posted 08-30-2010 2:07 PM ringo has replied
Replies to this message:
 Message 308 by ringo, posted 08-31-2010 1:02 PM John 10:10 has replied
John 10:10
Member (Idle past 3021 days)
Posts: 766
From: Mt Juliet / TN / USA
Joined: 02-01-2006

John 10:10 Posts Only
Message 305 of 386 (577980)
08-31-2010 9:34 AM 		Reply to: Message 303 by purpledawn
08-30-2010 4:32 PM

Re: Source of Authority, Source of Inspiration
quote:
And I've explained to you over and over that the principles of God's salvation that are in Christ Jesus that are in today's Bibles have not changed since they were witten many hundreds of years ago.
​
They work today just like they worked then, for those God is calling to Himself.
​
Unfortunately you are the one who doesn't know that. Those that our Lord calls to Himself do!
​
Peace
This message is a reply to:
 Message 303 by purpledawn, posted 08-30-2010 4:32 PM purpledawn has seen this message but not replied
Replies to this message:
 Message 306 by jar, posted 08-31-2010 10:26 AM John 10:10 has not replied
jar
Member (Idle past 420 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004

jar Posts Only
Message 306 of 386 (577987)
08-31-2010 10:26 AM 		Reply to: Message 305 by John 10:10
08-31-2010 9:34 AM

Re: Source of Authority, Source of Inspiration
John 10:10 writes:
​
Unfortunately you are the one who doesn't know that. Those that our Lord calls to Himself do!
​
And once again, please tell us how they know that? How do they tell the difference between a message from god or the holy spirit and a New Mexico Enchilada?
​
Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!
This message is a reply to:
 Message 305 by John 10:10, posted 08-31-2010 9:34 AM John 10:10 has not replied
Replies to this message:
 Message 307 by Huntard, posted 08-31-2010 10:36 AM jar has not replied
Huntard
Member (Idle past 2321 days)
Posts: 2870
From: Limburg, The Netherlands
Joined: 09-02-2008

Huntard Posts Only
Message 307 of 386 (577988)
08-31-2010 10:36 AM 		Reply to: Message 306 by jar
08-31-2010 10:26 AM

Re: Source of Authority, Source of Inspiration
Hey, aren't you supposed to be suspended? (See Message 91)
This message is a reply to:
 Message 306 by jar, posted 08-31-2010 10:26 AM jar has not replied
ringo
Member (Idle past 438 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005

ringo Posts Only
Message 308 of 386 (578003)
08-31-2010 1:02 PM 		Reply to: Message 304 by John 10:10
08-31-2010 9:30 AM

God's Plan (according to John 10:10)
John 10:10 writes:
​
Why do we need both the Bible source and inside help?
​
Because God designed His salvation plan that way!
That's what I've been saying. According to you, God's plan is to have a Bible that is not authoritative or truly inspired but requires a handy-dandy Star-Trek-type Universal Translator called the "Holy Spirit" to make any sense of it.
​
Life is like a Hot Wheels car. Sometimes it goes behind the couch and you can't find it.
This message is a reply to:
 Message 304 by John 10:10, posted 08-31-2010 9:30 AM John 10:10 has replied
Replies to this message:
 Message 309 by John 10:10, posted 08-31-2010 2:10 PM ringo has replied
John 10:10
Member (Idle past 3021 days)
Posts: 766
From: Mt Juliet / TN / USA
Joined: 02-01-2006

John 10:10 Posts Only
Message 309 of 386 (578019)
08-31-2010 2:10 PM 		Reply to: Message 308 by ringo
08-31-2010 1:02 PM

God's Plan according to the Bible
quote:
That's what I've been saying. According to you, God's plan is to have a Bible that is not authoritative or truly inspired but requires a handy-dandy Star-Trek-type Universal Translator called the "Holy Spirit" to make any sense of it.
Twist & shout your words all you will, and they are still your words, not mine!
​
The Bible is authorative and inspired for those God is drawing to Himself. You may not want there to be God of the Bible who speaks to His children from the pages of the Bible by the gift of His Spirit, but "God designed His salvation plan that way!"
​
Peace
This message is a reply to:
 Message 308 by ringo, posted 08-31-2010 1:02 PM ringo has replied
Replies to this message:
 Message 310 by ringo, posted 08-31-2010 2:55 PM John 10:10 has replied
ringo
Member (Idle past 438 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005

ringo Posts Only
Message 310 of 386 (578028)
08-31-2010 2:55 PM 		Reply to: Message 309 by John 10:10
08-31-2010 2:10 PM

Re: God's Plan according to the Bible
John 10:10 writes:
​
The Bible is authorative and inspired for those God is drawing to Himself.
Yes, exactly. The Bible is authoritative and inspired for the chosen. It is not authoritative and inspired full stop.
​
John 10:10 writes:
​
You may not want there to be God of the Bible who speaks to His children from the pages of the Bible by the gift of His Spirit, but "God designed His salvation plan that way!"
On the contrary, I'd be tickled pink if there was a God who made His plans clear through the Bible. It just doesn't seem like there is one. The one you describe only makes His plans clear to the ones he chooses.
​
Life is like a Hot Wheels car. Sometimes it goes behind the couch and you can't find it.
This message is a reply to:
 Message 309 by John 10:10, posted 08-31-2010 2:10 PM John 10:10 has replied
Replies to this message:
 Message 311 by John 10:10, posted 09-01-2010 12:03 AM ringo has not replied
John 10:10
Member (Idle past 3021 days)
Posts: 766
From: Mt Juliet / TN / USA
Joined: 02-01-2006

John 10:10 Posts Only
Message 311 of 386 (578167)
09-01-2010 12:03 AM 		Reply to: Message 310 by ringo
08-31-2010 2:55 PM

Re: God's Plan according to the Bible
quote:
On the contrary, I'd be tickled pink if there was a God who made His plans clear through the Bible. It just doesn't seem like there is one. The one you describe only makes His plans clear to the ones he chooses.
Now you are getting close to understanding the truth of the God of the Bible (see John 6:44).
​
The question that remains for you is this: Are you willing to be a John 3:16 "whosoever will" or a "whosoever won't"?
This message is a reply to:
 Message 310 by ringo, posted 08-31-2010 2:55 PM ringo has not replied
Replies to this message:
 Message 312 by purpledawn, posted 09-01-2010 7:49 AM John 10:10 has replied
purpledawn
Member (Idle past 3483 days)
Posts: 4453
From: Indiana
Joined: 04-25-2004

purpledawn Posts Only

(1)
Message 312 of 386 (578239)
09-01-2010 7:49 AM 		Reply to: Message 311 by John 10:10
09-01-2010 12:03 AM

Religion of the Book
quote:
Now you are getting close to understanding the truth of the God of the Bible (see John 6:44).
God of the Bible. Religion of the Book.
​
To believe in Jesus one has to know who Jesus is. The book isn't consistent. A name is nothing without something behind it. If we don't know what the book says, we don't know who Jesus is. You can say the son of God, but really from the way you're talking he is the son of the God of the Bible.
​
After Jesus died, Christians had many views of who Jesus was and the purpose of his death. Fully human, fully divine, half and half, and some believed the Christ part was divine and separate from Jesus. These were all based on the writings or variations of the writings we now have and other writings before Constantine gave backing to one group.
​
Before Constantine, the early Christian writings were copied locally, wherever they started or ended up. As they continued to be copied sometimes there were changes indigenous to the area. Just like the doublets in the OT. Professional scribes didn't do the copying until after Constantine.
​
From the research of Bart D. Ehrman, these are the top ten most familiar verses that weren't originally in the New Testament. (Misquoting Jesus: The Story Behind Who Changed the Bible and Why, Bart D. Ehrman, 2005, Pgs 265-266)
​
1 John 5:7 - There are three that bear witness in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Spirit, and these three are one.
John 8:7 - Let the one who is without sin among you be the first to cast a stone at her.
John 8:11 - Neither do I condemn you. Go and sin no more.
Luke 22:44 - In his anguish Jesus began to pray more earnestly, and his sweat became like great drops of blood falling to the ground.
Luke 22:20 - and in the same way after supper Jesus took the cup and said, "This cup that is poured out for you is the new covenant in my blood."
Mark 16:17 - These signs will accompany those who believe: in my name they will cast out demons and they will speak with new tongues.
Mark 16:18 - And they will take up snakes in their hands, and if they drink any poison it will not harm them, and they will lay their hands on the sick and they will become well.
John 5:4 - For an angel of the Lord went down at certain times into the pool and disturbed the waters; and whoever was the first to step in when the water was disturbed was healed of whatever disease he had.
Luke 24:12 - But Peter rose up and ran to the tomb, and stopping down to look in, he saw the linen clothes by themselves. and he went away to his own home, marveling at what had happened.
Luke 24:51 - and when Jesus blessed them he departed from them and he was taken up into heaven.
This message is a reply to:
 Message 311 by John 10:10, posted 09-01-2010 12:03 AM John 10:10 has replied
Replies to this message:
 Message 313 by John 10:10, posted 09-01-2010 10:09 AM purpledawn has replied
John 10:10
Member (Idle past 3021 days)
Posts: 766
From: Mt Juliet / TN / USA
Joined: 02-01-2006

John 10:10 Posts Only
Message 313 of 386 (578279)
09-01-2010 10:09 AM 		Reply to: Message 312 by purpledawn
09-01-2010 7:49 AM

Those who are being saved.
Bart Ehrman never found true faith in our Lord Jesus Christ through the gift of His Spirit, relying instead on intellectual beliefs that had no substance. Instead of pressing on into the reality of God who rewards those who dilligently seek Him (Heb 11:6), Bart turned back to unbelief. Bart never found the Lord who does this:
quote:
And the Lord was adding to their number day by day those who were being saved. (Acts 2:47)
This message is a reply to:
 Message 312 by purpledawn, posted 09-01-2010 7:49 AM purpledawn has replied
Replies to this message:
 Message 314 by Theodoric, posted 09-01-2010 11:26 AM John 10:10 has replied
 Message 315 by jar, posted 09-01-2010 11:32 AM John 10:10 has not replied
 Message 316 by purpledawn, posted 09-01-2010 11:45 AM John 10:10 has replied
Theodoric
Member
Posts: 9197
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 3.2

Theodoric Posts Only
Message 314 of 386 (578297)
09-01-2010 11:26 AM 		Reply to: Message 313 by John 10:10
09-01-2010 10:09 AM

Re: Those who are being saved.
pd writes:
​
From the research of Bart D. Ehrman, these are the top ten most familiar verses that weren't originally in the New Testament. (Misquoting Jesus: The Story Behind Who Changed the Bible and Why, Bart D. Ehrman, 2005, Pgs 265-266)
​
Can you show any evidence at all to dicount this? Or do you just have nothing like this.
​
Bart Ehrman never found true faith in our Lord Jesus Christ through the gift of His Spirit, relying instead on intellectual beliefs that had no substance. Instead of pressing on into the reality of God who rewards those who dilligently seek Him (Heb 11:6), Bart turned back to unbelief.
​
Do you know anything about him? Seems all you have is the "No True Scotsman Fallacy". You might want to look it up.
​
Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts
This message is a reply to:
 Message 313 by John 10:10, posted 09-01-2010 10:09 AM John 10:10 has replied
Replies to this message:
 Message 317 by John 10:10, posted 09-01-2010 11:53 AM Theodoric has replied
jar
Member (Idle past 420 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004

jar Posts Only
Message 315 of 386 (578298)
09-01-2010 11:32 AM 		Reply to: Message 313 by John 10:10
09-01-2010 10:09 AM

Re: Those who are being saved.
John 10:10 writes:
​
Bart Ehrman never found true faith in our Lord Jesus Christ through the gift of His Spirit, relying instead on intellectual beliefs that had no substance.
​
What procedures are used to tell the difference between "His Spirit" and a Chile Relleno?
​
Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!
This message is a reply to:
 Message 313 by John 10:10, posted 09-01-2010 10:09 AM John 10:10 has not replied
Date format: mm-dd-yyyy
Timezone: ET (US)
  
RewPrev1...1920212223...26Next
Newer Topic | Older Topic
Jump to:


Copyright 2001-2023 by EvC Forum, All Rights Reserved

™ Version 4.2
Innovative software from Qwixotic © 2024