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Author Topic:   How can there be a creator without creation?
flylike1
Junior Member (Idle past 3170 days)
Posts: 4
From: Taylor Mill/Louisville, KY, USA
Joined: 04-11-2010


Message 106 of 111 (556285)
04-18-2010 7:15 PM
Reply to: Message 105 by Dr Adequate
04-12-2010 3:56 AM


Re: The Law Of Superposition
""Everything was created at the same time" is not a fair summary."

Very well. Allow me to be more specific, then. The bible says birds and sea creatures existed BEFORE "wild beasts, livestock, and reptiles" when, the Law of Superposition (among other things) prove that birds are DESCENDED FROM reptiles. Hence birds coming before reptiles is an impossibility. Then again, the bible says that bats are birds too, so I suppose you can't expect any sort of consistancy or accuracy compared to what we know today.

"no creationist thinks that Augustus and I are a direct result of the six-day creation"

Which doesn't say much for an all-knowing god, does it?

"the Bible does not state nor imply that we were both created at the same time"

Nor do I, what's your point?

"the law of superposition was proposed by a creationist"

Neat. Again, what's your point? The big bang was also proposed by a creationist. Darwin himself was studying to become a member of the clergy (and set out on his famous voyage to discover "the centers of creation").

The beliefs of a person (religious or otherwise) are independent of their scientific discoveries. Isaac Newton believed that certain metals had magical powers. Does that reflect the validity of the law of gravitation? The laws of motion?


All religions are based on faith. If faith can lead to false belief, then what is the value of faith?
This message is a reply to:
 Message 105 by Dr Adequate, posted 04-12-2010 3:56 AM Dr Adequate has not yet responded

    
flylike1
Junior Member (Idle past 3170 days)
Posts: 4
From: Taylor Mill/Louisville, KY, USA
Joined: 04-11-2010


Message 107 of 111 (556290)
04-18-2010 7:38 PM
Reply to: Message 105 by Dr Adequate
04-12-2010 3:56 AM


Re: The Law Of Superposition
"the law of superposition was proposed by a creationist, Nicholas Steno"

I think it's worth pointing out that Ibn Sīnā, or Avicenna (a Muslim, for what it's worth) is considered the "father of geology" largely for the fact that he proposed plate tectonics, the law of superposition, and many other things in his "book of healing" or "Kitab Al-Shifa" around the year 1020.

Ironically perhaps, he also can be considered to be the originator of what is now considered Newton's first law of motion.

Regardless of the origin and beliefs of the person who comes up with a scientific theory (or law, etc.), it remains valid based on its evidence, independent of the beliefs of that person. It doesn't matter if a mass murdering, devil-worshipping person develops some grand scientific idea, or if a humanitarian who saved the world does- science is judged on its merits, not via ad hominem (or reverse ad hominem).


This message is a reply to:
 Message 105 by Dr Adequate, posted 04-12-2010 3:56 AM Dr Adequate has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 108 by Huntard, posted 04-19-2010 4:29 AM flylike1 has responded

    
Huntard
Member (Idle past 376 days)
Posts: 2870
From: Limburg, The Netherlands
Joined: 09-02-2008


Message 108 of 111 (556311)
04-19-2010 4:29 AM
Reply to: Message 107 by flylike1
04-18-2010 7:38 PM


Re: The Law Of Superposition
flylike1 writes:

I think it's worth pointing out that Ibn Sīnā, or Avicenna (a Muslim, for what it's worth) is considered the "father of geology" largely for the fact that he proposed plate tectonics, the law of superposition, and many other things in his "book of healing" or "Kitab Al-Shifa" around the year 1020.


That's interesting. Do you have a source for that?

And a free tip: Use the "Peek" button to the bottom right of this post to se how I did that neat little quotebox.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 107 by flylike1, posted 04-18-2010 7:38 PM flylike1 has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 109 by flylike1, posted 04-20-2010 4:51 PM Huntard has responded

    
flylike1
Junior Member (Idle past 3170 days)
Posts: 4
From: Taylor Mill/Louisville, KY, USA
Joined: 04-11-2010


Message 109 of 111 (556656)
04-20-2010 4:51 PM
Reply to: Message 108 by Huntard
04-19-2010 4:29 AM


Re: The Law Of Superposition
Yeah sure. I just recently learned about him, extremely interesting and intellectual guy. He lived during the Golden Age of Islam, which was at one point far more advanced than anywhere in the world. Then came their theocracy...

-http://www.muslimheritage.com/uploads/ibnsina.pdf
-http://muslimheritage.com/topics/default.cfm?ArticleID=319
-Aydin Sayili "Ibn Sīnā and Buridan on the Motion of the Projectile", Annals of the New York Academy of Sciences: "Indeed, self-motion of the type conceived by Ibn Sina is almost the opposite of the Aristotelian conception of violent motion of the projectile type, and it is rather reminiscent of the principle of inertia, i.e., Newton's first law of motion."

There are many more, too many to list here, but you can read more elsewhere


This message is a reply to:
 Message 108 by Huntard, posted 04-19-2010 4:29 AM Huntard has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 110 by bluescat48, posted 04-21-2010 12:51 AM flylike1 has not yet responded
 Message 111 by Huntard, posted 04-21-2010 4:38 AM flylike1 has not yet responded

    
bluescat48
Member (Idle past 2270 days)
Posts: 2347
From: United States
Joined: 10-06-2007


Message 110 of 111 (556767)
04-21-2010 12:51 AM
Reply to: Message 109 by flylike1
04-20-2010 4:51 PM


Re: The Law Of Superposition
Yeah sure. I just recently learned about him, extremely interesting and intellectual guy. He lived during the Golden Age of Islam, which was at one point far more advanced than anywhere in the world. Then came their theocracy...

Just shows what happens when religion is brought into science.


There is no better love between 2 people than mutual respect for each other WT Young, 2002

Who gave anyone the authority to call me an authority on anything. WT Young, 1969

Since Evolution is only ~90% correct it should be thrown out and replaced by Creation which has even a lower % of correctness. W T Young, 2008


This message is a reply to:
 Message 109 by flylike1, posted 04-20-2010 4:51 PM flylike1 has not yet responded

    
Huntard
Member (Idle past 376 days)
Posts: 2870
From: Limburg, The Netherlands
Joined: 09-02-2008


Message 111 of 111 (556787)
04-21-2010 4:38 AM
Reply to: Message 109 by flylike1
04-20-2010 4:51 PM


Re: The Law Of Superposition
flylike1 writes:

Yeah sure. I just recently learned about him, extremely interesting and intellectual guy. He lived during the Golden Age of Islam, which was at one point far more advanced than anywhere in the world. Then came their theocracy...


Yeah, I knew about that. Thanks for the links, very interesting stuff there!
This message is a reply to:
 Message 109 by flylike1, posted 04-20-2010 4:51 PM flylike1 has not yet responded

    
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