Understanding through Discussion


Welcome! You are not logged in. [ Login ]
EvC Forum active members: 85 (8936 total)
31 online now:
DrJones*, dwise1, GDR (3 members, 28 visitors)
Chatting now:  Chat room empty
Newest Member: ssope
Upcoming Birthdays: AdminPhat
Post Volume: Total: 861,616 Year: 16,652/19,786 Month: 777/2,598 Week: 23/251 Day: 0/23 Hour: 0/0


Thread  Details

Email This Thread
Newer Topic | Older Topic
  
Author Topic:   If you were God, what kind of God would you be?
Peg
Member (Idle past 3184 days)
Posts: 2703
From: melbourne, australia
Joined: 11-22-2008


Message 226 of 247 (523259)
09-09-2009 7:50 AM
Reply to: Message 224 by Straggler
09-08-2009 7:02 PM


Re: God's Morality
Straggler writes:

No.I am asking you how I can access this objective and absolute morality that you tell me exists in order to answer such questions?

absolute morality only works if everyone agrees what it is and to abide by it. Our world shows that they do not.

Jesus provided a perfect model for absolute morality - 'Love'

If we all treated each other with love, then absolute morality could exist.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 224 by Straggler, posted 09-08-2009 7:02 PM Straggler has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 235 by Phage0070, posted 09-10-2009 7:15 PM Peg has responded
 Message 243 by Straggler, posted 09-11-2009 6:40 PM Peg has responded

    
Peg
Member (Idle past 3184 days)
Posts: 2703
From: melbourne, australia
Joined: 11-22-2008


Message 227 of 247 (523263)
09-09-2009 7:58 AM
Reply to: Message 225 by Hyroglyphx
09-08-2009 8:58 PM


Re: God's Morality
Hyroglyphx writes:

That's an interesting theory considering half of the bible is about how God is completely partial to Israel, his chosen one's, the apple of his eye, etc, etc. He commanded Israel to destroy any nation that got in the way of his plan, any nation who he deemed sinful and corrupt, any nation that worshiped false gods, including Israelites itself which defiled Israel's purpose.

but he actually wasnt partial to them. The law allowed for people of any nation to join isreal in the worship of God.

The reason why 1 nation was chosen back then was because God was sending his son who had to be born into a nation who worshiped God in the correct way.

The purpose of the Messiah was to atone for the sin of Adam so that All of Adams descendents could have an approach to God. Once that Messiah arrived, he stood in place of the Mosaic law so that all nations could worship God thru him.

So the reality is that Isreal was chosen for a specific purpose, not because God thought they were better but because true worship needed a model and they were the ones chosen to model it.

However, now that we have Jesus, he has become the model for worship and so we follow him instead.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 225 by Hyroglyphx, posted 09-08-2009 8:58 PM Hyroglyphx has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 228 by Hyroglyphx, posted 09-09-2009 10:13 AM Peg has responded

    
Hyroglyphx
Member
Posts: 5800
From: Austin, TX
Joined: 05-03-2006
Member Rating: 2.4


Message 228 of 247 (523279)
09-09-2009 10:13 AM
Reply to: Message 227 by Peg
09-09-2009 7:58 AM


Re: God's Morality
The reason why 1 nation was chosen back then was because God was sending his son who had to be born into a nation who worshiped God in the correct way.

I'm not familiar with that verse, or at least can't think recall it. Can you please provide the verse(s) that corroborate your claim?

The purpose of the Messiah was to atone for the sin of Adam so that All of Adams descendents could have an approach to God. Once that Messiah arrived, he stood in place of the Mosaic law so that all nations could worship God thru him.

What does that have to do with the fact that he's partial to Israel? Yes, according to scripture all people can come and worship, but that is not what we are discussing. We're talking about how he is partial to Israel and Israel's interests.

quote:
When the LORD your God brings you into the land you are entering to possess and drives out before you many nations—the Hittites, Girgashites, Amorites, Canaanites, Perizzites, Hivites and Jebusites, seven nations larger and stronger than you- and when the LORD your God has delivered them over to you and you have defeated them, then you must destroy them totally. Make no treaty with them, and show them no mercy. Do not intermarry with them. Do not give your daughters to their sons or take their daughters for your sons, for they will turn your sons away from following me to serve other gods, and the LORD's anger will burn against you and will quickly destroy you... The LORD will keep you free from every disease. He will not inflict on you the horrible diseases you knew in Egypt, but he will inflict them on all who hate you. You must destroy all the peoples the LORD your God gives over to you. Do not look on them with pity and do not serve their gods, for that will be a snare to you. - Deuteronomy 7

Edited by Hyroglyphx, : No reason given.


"The Constitution shall never be construed to prevent the people of the United States who are peaceable citizens from keeping their own arms." - Samual Adams
This message is a reply to:
 Message 227 by Peg, posted 09-09-2009 7:58 AM Peg has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 229 by Peg, posted 09-10-2009 3:56 AM Hyroglyphx has not yet responded

    
Peg
Member (Idle past 3184 days)
Posts: 2703
From: melbourne, australia
Joined: 11-22-2008


Message 229 of 247 (523409)
09-10-2009 3:56 AM
Reply to: Message 228 by Hyroglyphx
09-09-2009 10:13 AM


Re: God's Morality
Hyroglyphx writes:

We're talking about how he is partial to Israel and Israel's interests.

do you really think that God would send his son to a people who participated in vile acts and who practiced satanic forms of worship?

he needed a group of people who knew him and knew how to worship him acceptable, on top of that, he wanted to send his son to a clean, holy pure nation because his son was holy, clean and pure. He chose Isreal because they were the descendents of his friend Abraham. So he sent them his laws and prepared them for the arrival of the Messiah.

This is why the mosaic law was so strict when it came to justice. The nation needed to be clean from everything that God considered immoral.

Edited by Peg, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 228 by Hyroglyphx, posted 09-09-2009 10:13 AM Hyroglyphx has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 230 by Perdition, posted 09-10-2009 11:14 AM Peg has responded
 Message 232 by Dr Adequate, posted 09-10-2009 12:02 PM Peg has not yet responded
 Message 233 by bluescat48, posted 09-10-2009 6:07 PM Peg has not yet responded

    
Perdition
Member (Idle past 1492 days)
Posts: 1593
From: Wisconsin
Joined: 05-15-2003


Message 230 of 247 (523443)
09-10-2009 11:14 AM
Reply to: Message 229 by Peg
09-10-2009 3:56 AM


Re: God's Morality
So, you're claiming that Jesus couldn't play to a hostile crowd? So, the churches that send out missionaries to "heathens" who don't know God and practice "satanic forms of worship" are somehow better than God is at preparing their missionaries?

Wouldn't it be a better advocation of God's power and rightness if he sent his son (the one he needs to be executed and tortured) to people who didn't know him, and still have him convince a large enough portion of his power and rightness to create a major religion?

How does sending someone to a group of people who are predisposed to believe the types of things he's showing any sign of his power? Is a magician considered better if he can convince a group of kids who are predisposed to believe what they are shown and in magic in general, or if he goes to a group of other magicians who know other ways of doing the same trick, but are still impressed by his tricks?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 229 by Peg, posted 09-10-2009 3:56 AM Peg has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 237 by Peg, posted 09-11-2009 12:25 AM Perdition has responded

    
Dr Adequate
Member
Posts: 16099
Joined: 07-20-2006


Message 231 of 247 (523446)
09-10-2009 11:53 AM
Reply to: Message 216 by Peg
09-04-2009 10:43 AM


Re: God's Morality
becasue Jesus showed that the purpose of the kingdom was to bring about the end of the wars of the nations.
Jesus showed that all who would live under the kingdom arrangement would do so by living in peace and loving their enemies.

"Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword." --- Jesus of Nazareth, Matthew 10.

Also, God does not take sides in wars because he views all mankind as one group, not as separate nations. he does not suffer from nationalism the way we do. He is not partial.

Haven't you ever read the Bible?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 216 by Peg, posted 09-04-2009 10:43 AM Peg has not yet responded

  
Dr Adequate
Member
Posts: 16099
Joined: 07-20-2006


Message 232 of 247 (523449)
09-10-2009 12:02 PM
Reply to: Message 229 by Peg
09-10-2009 3:56 AM


Re: God's Morality
The nation needed to be clean from everything that God considered immoral.

I.e. pork, shellfish, cloth woven out of two kinds of thread, and people who pick up sticks on Saturday.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 229 by Peg, posted 09-10-2009 3:56 AM Peg has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 234 by Rahvin, posted 09-10-2009 6:21 PM Dr Adequate has not yet responded

  
bluescat48
Member (Idle past 2444 days)
Posts: 2347
From: United States
Joined: 10-06-2007


Message 233 of 247 (523496)
09-10-2009 6:07 PM
Reply to: Message 229 by Peg
09-10-2009 3:56 AM


Re: God's Morality
Peg writes:

He chose Isreal because they were the descendents of his friend Abraham.

So what about Abraham's other decendents, Ismael & Esau?


There is no better love between 2 people than mutual respect for each other WT Young, 2002

Who gave anyone the authority to call me an authority on anything. WT Young, 1969

Since Evolution is only ~90% correct it should be thrown out and replaced by Creation which has even a lower % of correctness. W T Young, 2008


This message is a reply to:
 Message 229 by Peg, posted 09-10-2009 3:56 AM Peg has not yet responded

    
Rahvin
Member
Posts: 3964
Joined: 07-01-2005


Message 234 of 247 (523499)
09-10-2009 6:21 PM
Reply to: Message 232 by Dr Adequate
09-10-2009 12:02 PM


Re: God's Morality
I.e. pork, shellfish, cloth woven out of two kinds of thread, and people who pick up sticks on Saturday.

Don't forget mixing meat and cheese. That's a doosey.

My delicious roast beef and swiss sandwiches are an abomination before the LORD...and it tickles me.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 232 by Dr Adequate, posted 09-10-2009 12:02 PM Dr Adequate has not yet responded

  
Phage0070
Inactive Member


Message 235 of 247 (523505)
09-10-2009 7:15 PM
Reply to: Message 226 by Peg
09-09-2009 7:50 AM


Re: God's Morality
Peg writes:

Jesus provided a perfect model for absolute morality - 'Love'

If we all treated each other with love, then absolute morality could exist.

For some people love is caring for someone, and doing what you think is the best for them. Others think it is respecting their wishes even if you disagree with them. Still others think it is whipping them and stomping on their reproductive organs while wearing a gas mask.

"Love" is not a basis for absolute morality. What you are proposing is an arbitrary theocracy, nothing more.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 226 by Peg, posted 09-09-2009 7:50 AM Peg has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 236 by Peg, posted 09-11-2009 12:19 AM Phage0070 has responded

  
Peg
Member (Idle past 3184 days)
Posts: 2703
From: melbourne, australia
Joined: 11-22-2008


Message 236 of 247 (523540)
09-11-2009 12:19 AM
Reply to: Message 235 by Phage0070
09-10-2009 7:15 PM


Re: God's Morality
Phage0070 writes:

What you are proposing is an arbitrary theocracy

and whats wrong with theocracy?

At least its consistent and everyone knows what it is. People come and go along with their standards

Gods standards are always stable.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 235 by Phage0070, posted 09-10-2009 7:15 PM Phage0070 has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 238 by Phage0070, posted 09-11-2009 1:26 AM Peg has not yet responded
 Message 239 by bluescat48, posted 09-11-2009 10:02 AM Peg has responded

    
Peg
Member (Idle past 3184 days)
Posts: 2703
From: melbourne, australia
Joined: 11-22-2008


Message 237 of 247 (523542)
09-11-2009 12:25 AM
Reply to: Message 230 by Perdition
09-10-2009 11:14 AM


Re: God's Morality
Perdition writes:

Wouldn't it be a better advocation of God's power and rightness if he sent his son (the one he needs to be executed and tortured) to people who didn't know him, and still have him convince a large enough portion of his power and rightness to create a major religion?

He did....they are called Gentiles and the christian church today is mostly made up of gentiles.

And whats more, Jesus didnt even need to be here to bring them into his church.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 230 by Perdition, posted 09-10-2009 11:14 AM Perdition has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 241 by Perdition, posted 09-11-2009 11:54 AM Peg has responded

    
Phage0070
Inactive Member


Message 238 of 247 (523546)
09-11-2009 1:26 AM
Reply to: Message 236 by Peg
09-11-2009 12:19 AM


Re: God's Morality
Peg writes:

At least its consistent and everyone knows what it is. People come and go along with their standards

Gods standards are always stable.


The countless sects and interpretations of morality and God's law and intentions disagree with everyone knowing what it is. Also, the interpretations have changed so it isn't consistent. There is no way of figuring out what God's standards might be given that nobody can even prove his existence. I am starting to wonder if you even thought about what you typed.

That being said, theocracy is the worst possible method of justifying a moral framework simply because it is based on a lie. Ideally morality would be based on what is good for the whole, or what the society in general agrees to be appropriate. A poor basis would be "Because it makes me happy". The worst basis is "I am the mouthpiece of God, my dreams are law". Theocracy anyone?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 236 by Peg, posted 09-11-2009 12:19 AM Peg has not yet responded

  
bluescat48
Member (Idle past 2444 days)
Posts: 2347
From: United States
Joined: 10-06-2007


Message 239 of 247 (523576)
09-11-2009 10:02 AM
Reply to: Message 236 by Peg
09-11-2009 12:19 AM


Re: God's Morality
Peg writes:

and whats wrong with theocracy?

Ever check out Spain at the time of the inquisition, Germany at the time of Martin Luther or Afghanistan under the Taliban?

Martin Luther was a fugitive, not only under the church, but under civil law as well. In a Theocracy, only those who adhere to the state Religious sect are true citizens, everyone else is either considered a less that total citizen or is persecuted.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 236 by Peg, posted 09-11-2009 12:19 AM Peg has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 240 by Peg, posted 09-11-2009 10:38 AM bluescat48 has not yet responded

    
Peg
Member (Idle past 3184 days)
Posts: 2703
From: melbourne, australia
Joined: 11-22-2008


Message 240 of 247 (523586)
09-11-2009 10:38 AM
Reply to: Message 239 by bluescat48
09-11-2009 10:02 AM


Re: God's Morality
bluescat writes:

In a Theocracy, only those who adhere to the state Religious sect are true citizens, everyone else is either considered a less that total citizen or is persecuted.

well to be realistic, theocracy is an oxymoron

its impossible to for man to institute what is only institutable by God.

Theocracy means 'God Rule'

how can we say God is ruling if man is the one administering it? Its impossible.

But it wont be impossible if God actually institutes & administers it...then no man will dominate over any other man... all mankind will be answerable to God alone and God will be the one to administer the justice. So those nations who say they are theocratic are not really theorcratic. they are just using religion to administer their own rule.

God is not really ruling them.

Edited by Peg, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 239 by bluescat48, posted 09-11-2009 10:02 AM bluescat48 has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 242 by Phage0070, posted 09-11-2009 1:54 PM Peg has responded

    
Newer Topic | Older Topic
Jump to:


Copyright 2001-2018 by EvC Forum, All Rights Reserved

™ Version 4.0 Beta
Innovative software from Qwixotic © 2019