|
Register | Sign In |
|
QuickSearch
EvC Forum active members: 45 (9208 total) |
| |
anil dahar | |
Total: 919,511 Year: 6,768/9,624 Month: 108/238 Week: 25/83 Day: 1/3 Hour: 0/1 |
Thread ▼ Details |
|
|
Author | Topic: That boat don't float | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Jzyehoshua Member (Idle past 1020 days) Posts: 153 Joined: |
The boat wasn't supposed to have been a box, but shaped more like a basket given the word usage, as noted by AIG:
Was There Really a Noah’s Ark & Flood?
| Answers in Genesis
They also provided a model for it that would fix the steerage issues. You seem to be assuming it was just a big box when some design details are just not mentioned, and we can only hypothesize about.
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Jzyehoshua Member (Idle past 1020 days) Posts: 153 Joined: |
Both waste disposal and care for animals are addressed in this article I found:
Caring for the Animals on the Ark
| Answers in Genesis
quote: quote: Articles were found here:
Noah’s Ark
| Answers in Genesis
Edited by Jzyehoshua, : No reason given.
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Dr Adequate Member Posts: 16113 Joined: |
Well jar seems to be right even if he did use a naughty word.
Heyerdahl made one voyage in the reed boat Ra and very nearly made it. Since he got so close, he saw no problem with his basic design, but had Ra II built along the same lines and succeeded. Here is a picture of Ra II It's not covered in tar. You can see video of Ra II here. Where's the tar? There is no tar. Where did you get the story about the tar? Edited by Dr Adequate, : No reason given.
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Stargaze Junior Member (Idle past 4366 days) Posts: 6 Joined:
|
I don't understand how "basket" is a shape. I can picture all kinds of baskets, which one was the ark modeled after?
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Jzyehoshua Member (Idle past 1020 days) Posts: 153 Joined: |
I don't understand how "basket" is a shape. I can picture all kinds of baskets, which one was the ark modeled after? Tough to tell, really. As noted in the following AIG article, all we can really do is go off the Hebrew word used, tebah, that's translated Ark in English, to try and figure out what it was like.
Was There Really a Noah’s Ark & Flood?
| Answers in Genesis
quote: Here are all the places where the word is used in the Bible, including the Interlinear (Hebrew) words. Basically about the best that can be done to figure it out is look at the different places it's used and see if there's any clues as to what it might mean. Edited by Jzyehoshua, : removing list of words put in next post, fixed glitch due to arrow tags
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Jzyehoshua Member (Idle past 1020 days) Posts: 153 Joined: |
Hmm, it's not showing all the Hebrew words for some reason, some kind of problem, probably because of the tags. I will post it again here and edit it in.
Ge 6:14 Make (`asah) thee an ark (tebah) of gopher (gopher) wood (`ets); rooms (qen) shalt thou make (`asah) in ('eth) the ark (tebah), and shalt pitch (kaphar) it within (bayith) and without (chuwts) with pitch (kopher).Ge 6:15 And this is the fashion which thou shalt make (`asah) it of: The length ('orek) of the ark (tebah) shall be three (shalowsh) hundred (me'ah) cubits ('ammah), the breadth (rochab) of it fifty (chamishshiym) cubits ('ammah), and the height (qowmah) of it thirty (shelowshiym) cubits ('ammah). Ge 6:16 A window (tsohar) shalt thou make (`asah) to the ark (tebah), and in a cubit ('ammah) shalt thou finish (kalah) it above (ma`al); and the door (pethach) of the ark (tebah) shalt thou set (suwm) in the side thereof (tsad); with lower (tachtiy), second (sheniy), and third (sheliyshiy) stories shalt thou make (`asah) it. Ge 6:18 But with thee will I establish (quwm) my covenant (beriyth); and thou shalt come (bow') into ('el) the ark (tebah), thou ('attah), and thy sons (ben), and thy wife ('ishshah), and thy sons (ben)' wives ('ishshah) with thee. Ge 6:19 And of every living thing (chay) of all flesh (basar), two (shenayim) of every sort shalt thou bring (bow') into the ark (tebah), to keep them alive (chayah) with thee; they shall be male (zakar) and female (neqebah). Ge 7:1 And the LORD (Yehovah) said ('amar) unto Noah (Noach), Come (bow') thou and all thy house (bayith) into the ark (tebah); for thee have I seen (ra'ah) righteous (tsaddiyq) before me (paniym) in this (zeh) generation (dowr). Ge 7:7 And Noah (Noach) went in (bow'), and his sons (ben), and his wife ('ishshah), and his sons (ben)' wives ('ishshah) with him, into the ark (tebah), because of (paniym) the waters (mayim) of the flood (mabbuwl). Ge 7:9 There went in (bow') two (shenayim) and two (shenayim) unto Noah (Noach) into the ark (tebah), the male (zakar) and the female (neqebah), as ('aher) God ('elohiym) had commanded (tsavah) Noah (Noach). Ge 7:13 In the selfsame (`etsem) day (yowm) entered (bow') Noah (Noach), and Shem (Shem), and Ham (Cham), and Japheth (Yepheth), the sons (ben) of Noah (Noach), and Noah's (Noach) wife ('ishshah), and the three (shalowsh) wives ('ishshah) of his sons (ben) with them, into the ark (tebah); Ge 7:15 And they went in (bow') unto Noah (Noach) into the ark (tebah), two (shenayim) and two (shenayim) of all flesh (basar), wherein ('aher) is the breath (ruwach) of life (chay). Ge 7:17 And the flood (mabbuwl) was forty ('arba`iym) days (yowm) upon the earth ('erets); and the waters (mayim) increased (rabah), and bare up (nasa') the ark (tebah), and it was lift up (ruwm) above the earth ('erets). Ge 7:18 And the waters (mayim) prevailed (gabar), and were increased (rabah) greatly (me`od) upon the earth ('erets); and the ark (tebah) went (yalak) upon the face (paniym) of the waters (mayim). Ge 7:23 And every living substance (yequwm) was destroyed (machah) which was upon the face (paniym) of the ground ('adamah), both man ('adam), and cattle (behemah), and the creeping things (remes), and the fowl (`owph) of the heaven (shamayim); and they were destroyed (machah) from the earth ('erets): and Noah (Noach) only ('ak) remained (sha'ar) alive, and they that ('aher) were with him in the ark (tebah). Ge 8:1 And God ('elohiym) remembered (zakar) Noah (Noach), and every living thing (chay), and all the cattle (behemah) that was with him in the ark (tebah): and God ('elohiym) made (`abar) a wind (ruwach) to pass (`abar) over (`al) the earth ('erets), and the waters (mayim) asswaged (shakak); Ge 8:4 And the ark (tebah) rested (nuwach) in the seventh (shebiy`iy) month (chodesh), on the seventeenth (`asar) (sheba`) day (yowm) of the month (chodesh), upon the mountains (har) of Ararat ('Ararat). Ge 8:6 And it came to pass at the end (qets) of forty ('arba`iym) days (yowm), that Noah (Noach) opened (pathach) the window (challown) of the ark (tebah) which he had made (`asah): Ge 8:9 But the dove (yownah) found (matsa') no rest (manowach) for the sole (kaph) of her foot (regel), and she returned (shuwb) unto him into the ark (tebah), for the waters (mayim) were on the face (paniym) of the whole earth ('erets): then he put forth (shalach) his hand (yad), and took her (laqach), and pulled her in (bow') unto him into the ark (tebah). Ge 8:10 And he stayed (chuwl) yet other ('acher) seven (sheba`) days (yowm); and again (yacaph) he sent forth (shalach) the dove (yownah) out of the ark (tebah); Ge 8:13 And it came to pass in the six (shesh) hundredth (me'ah) and first year (shaneh (in pl. only),), in the first (ri'shown) month, the first ('echad) day of the month (chodesh), the waters (mayim) were dried up (charab) from off the earth ('erets): and Noah (Noach) removed (cuwr) the covering (mikceh) of the ark (tebah), and looked (ra'ah), and, behold, the face (paniym) of the ground ('adamah) was dry (charab). Ge 8:16 Go forth (yatsa') of the ark (tebah), thou, and thy wife ('ishshah), and thy sons (ben), and thy sons (ben)' wives ('ishshah) with thee. Ge 8:19 Every beast (chay), every creeping thing (remes), and every fowl (`owph), and whatsoever (kol) creepeth (ramas) upon the earth ('erets), after their kinds (mishpachah), went forth (yatsa') out of the ark (tebah). Ge 9:10 And with every living (chay) creature (nephesh) that is with you, of the fowl (`owph), of the cattle (behemah), and of every beast (chay) of the earth ('erets) with you; from all that go out (yatsa') of the ark (tebah), to every beast (chay) of the earth ('erets). Ge 9:18 And the sons (ben) of Noah (Noach), that went forth (yatsa') of the ark (tebah), were Shem (Shem), and Ham (Cham), and Japheth (Yepheth): and Ham (Cham) (huw') is the father ('ab) of Canaan (Kena`an). Ex 2:3 And when she could (yakol) not longer (`owd) hide (tsaphan) him, she took (laqach) for him an ark (tebah) of bulrushes (gome'), and daubed (chamar) it with slime (chemar) and with pitch (zepheth), and put (suwm) the child (yeled) therein; and she laid (suwm) it in the flags (cuwph) by the river's (ye`or) brink (saphah). Ex 2:5 And the daughter (bath) of Pharaoh (Par`oh) came down (yarad) to wash (rachats) herself at the river (ye`or); and her maidens (na`arah) walked (halak) along by the river's (ye`or) side (yad); and when she saw (ra'ah) the ark (tebah) among (tavek) the flags (cuwph), she sent (shalach) her maid ('amah) to fetch (laqach) it. Alright, that should work. I'll delete the part of the last post that messed up and didn't post all the Hebrew words. Edited by Jzyehoshua, : No reason given. Edited by Jzyehoshua, : bolding word ark for easier readability
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Jzyehoshua Member (Idle past 1020 days) Posts: 153 Joined: |
Anyway, just from taking a quick look at the list, some observations:
* In Exodus 2:3 where the word is used, it says the Ark Moses was in was made of bulrushes. So I don't think you could make reeds or bulrushes into a box shape easily. Probably was something of a basket or even spherical, but you'd think it had to be rounded somehow.* It makes it really tough to tell what it was like because outside of the Flood narrative in Genesis chapters 6-9 it's only used twice in the Bible. It had to have been a shape capable of being made readily by an Israelite wife scared her child would be killed, but perhaps unusual enough that it wasn't mentioned much in the Bible.
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
jar Member (Idle past 99 days) Posts: 34140 From: Texas!! Joined: |
If it is impossible to say what the design was then it's impossible to say it would even float; but since the Biblical Flood never happened it doesn't much matter anyway.
Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Jzyehoshua Member (Idle past 1020 days) Posts: 153 Joined: |
Well, theories could be proposed for how it COULD float, which is basically all Answers in Genesis did, theorize on ways a design could work given the minimal information we know. But really, there's not really any way to tell for sure what the Ark's shape was exactly, at least, not that I know of anyway.
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Jzyehoshua Member (Idle past 1020 days) Posts: 153 Joined: |
We basically know some basic dimensions (300 x 50 x 30 cubits) and that it was 3 stories with multiple rooms. It had a window and a door in the side. (Genesis 6:14-16) And as mentioned it was likely somewhat spherical given that Arks can be made out of bulrushes. Beyond that, just basically guesswork - your guess is as good as mine.
Also, Cubits were based on forearm measurements. The bigger the guy, the bigger the Cubit. So if pre-Flood humans were bigger the Ark could be a bit bigger than is usually calculated, if smaller, than it could be a smaller Ark. Edited by Jzyehoshua, : No reason given.
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Coyote Member (Idle past 2366 days) Posts: 6117 Joined:
|
Animal care, eh?
If you think that AIG method is practical, you're nuts. AIG is imagining methods of animal care that aren't done today, even with the technology we have. Think of Noah's problems. For example: No pumps to feed water to the piping AIG imagines they had for watering all those guys. No fresh water! No place to store a year's worth of food. Some animals require a good deal of poop-scooping--often more than once a day if they are confined. ("Noah! I've had it! I'm not scooping up after those elephants one more day!") You believe AIG's nonsense about 16,000 animals, eh? I suspect you've never cared for large animals, or if you have, you have no grasp of mathematics. (Want to learn something? Want to see how much waste four horses can generate a day? And how long it takes to scoop it? Let me know--we can certainly help you out.) If Noah and his kin worked 24/7, that would be caring for 1.39 animals per minute for a full year. If they slept and otherwise wasted their time for 8 hours a day, they would have to care for over 2.08 animals per minute for a full year. No, just for these reasons alone it wasn't doable. Face it, the Noah myth is a myth. It didn't really happen. Get over it.Religious belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge.
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Jzyehoshua Member (Idle past 1020 days) Posts: 153 Joined: |
Still, some of the stuff the ancient world produced like the Easter Island statues and Stonehenge we still don't have an explanation for either. We don't really know what exactly their capabilities or ingenuity levels were like. Maybe the lower deck really was a "poop deck" - literally. But I don't know that I'd write this off as an impossibility.
16,000 animals may not have been needed given the rapid microevolutionary rates that we see today, and would allow them to rapidly branch out into the varieties we see today. Biological evolution - CreationWiki, the encyclopedia of creation science Edited by Jzyehoshua, : fixed wrong link
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Dr Adequate Member Posts: 16113 Joined:
|
I agree with Coyote, that's just rubbish. Hasn't the guy who wrote that ever talked to anyone who's tried to keep a diverse collection of animals alive? And below decks on a ship as well?
I'd recommend a course of Gerald Durrell's books, he's both run a zoo and been responsible for the short-term (by which AiG mean over a year!) transport of animals on boats. They seem hopelessly naive about the whole thing. I mean, take this:
Animals that required special care or diets were uncommon and should not have needed an inordinate amount of time from the handlers. Even animals with the most specialized diets in nature could have been switched to readily sustainable substitute diets. NO.
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
jar Member (Idle past 99 days) Posts: 34140 From: Texas!! Joined:
|
YOU may not have an explanation for either Stonehenge or the Easter Island moai but that does not mean the rest of us don't understand how they were built.
Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
fearandloathing Member (Idle past 4404 days) Posts: 990 From: Burlington, NC, USA Joined: |
What about all the plants the flood destroyed. Where did the olive branch come from? Even if Noah carried seed and seedlings it would still be a problem feeding all the animals until the first harvest. Of course Ham and AiG can always play the supernatural card.
quote:
Was There Really a Noah’s Ark & Flood?
| Answers in Genesis
A nation of sheep will beget a government of wolves. ― Edward R. Murrow "Yeah, I know. I'm guilty. I understand that. I knew it was a crime, and I did it anyways. Shit, why argue? I'm a fucking criminal, look at me." - Raoul Duke
|
|
|
Do Nothing Button
Copyright 2001-2023 by EvC Forum, All Rights Reserved
Version 4.2
Innovative software from Qwixotic © 2024