|
Author
|
Topic: ICANT'S position in the creation debate
|
Sasuke
Member (Idle past 5182 days) Posts: 137 Joined: 08-21-2009
|
mike,
mike the wiz writes: I'm not arguing God is biological. Show me in the bible where abiogenesis contradicts gen 1 or 2.
mike the wiz writes: This "ailment" allows me to see all of the angles, and motives. ok lord mike the wiz..
mike the wiz writes: The motive is essentially to have natural explanations for everything, so as to state that a parsimonious view means God is not required. I would be highly obtuse to believe that naturalism is an attempt to prove the bible true.
No the motive is to understand things as we can understand them. If we learn that life can exist, for example on a electromagnetic level then perhaps we have a new understanding of life and a new understanding of origins perhaps even evolution. Do try to think outside the predisposed boxes. Edited by Sasuke, : add question Edited by Sasuke, : edit lol Edited by Sasuke, : No reason given. Edited by Sasuke, : edit
OPEN YOUR MIND! Sasuke!
|
Sasuke
Member (Idle past 5182 days) Posts: 137 Joined: 08-21-2009
|
|
Message 388 of 687 (523146)
09-08-2009 4:18 PM
|
Reply to: Message 387 by lyx2no
09-08-2009 4:15 PM
|
|
Re: Time
lyx2no, I don't think he can see passed the symbolism of the word "time". Hence the word "time" is made by man argument. Lets define the word "time" argument. Its all silly. I am confused how he cant see passed this firewall even at the age of 70... Maybe being 70 is a handicap in his case though... Edited by Sasuke, : No reason given.
OPEN YOUR MIND! Sasuke!
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 387 by lyx2no, posted 09-08-2009 4:15 PM | | lyx2no has not replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 390 by cavediver, posted 09-08-2009 4:28 PM | | Sasuke has seen this message but not replied |
|
Sasuke
Member (Idle past 5182 days) Posts: 137 Joined: 08-21-2009
|
|
|
Message 393 of 687 (523155)
09-08-2009 4:45 PM
|
Reply to: Message 391 by ICANT
09-08-2009 4:30 PM
|
|
Re: Time
ICANT, I think you have an inability to think in probability. Is it more probable that there is time, duration, existence.. or is it more probable that there is no time, no duration or no existence? Then is it more probable that we evolved or were created? and if we were created how long did it take god to create? and if it took a period time to create is that understanding of "time" not biblical?? Edited by Sasuke, : edit Edited by Sasuke, : edit
OPEN YOUR MIND! Sasuke!
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 391 by ICANT, posted 09-08-2009 4:30 PM | | ICANT has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 396 by ICANT, posted 09-08-2009 5:34 PM | | Sasuke has replied |
|
Sasuke
Member (Idle past 5182 days) Posts: 137 Joined: 08-21-2009
|
|
|
Message 398 of 687 (523166)
09-08-2009 5:37 PM
|
Reply to: Message 396 by ICANT
09-08-2009 5:34 PM
|
|
Re: Time
ICANT, how can evening come without duration? I know your answer, the earth orbits the sun. However it happens in events. The distance between these events is measured in duration(who cares if its man made still same thing). I don't care if you divide it up, change the math to make it take 24hrs, 24 years, 24 decades, 24 meleniums.. I don't care in all cases you have a eta... The math is irrelevant to the concept. You still have distance betwen events no matter WHAT. who cares if this existence has always existed or has not always existed. You still have distance betwen events and as such you still have a FORM, FORM, FORM, FORM, FORM of time... did you catch the word FORM before the word TIME? I have another question. Why do you keep refering to other articles to support your ideas? Cant you just support them on your own? The opinion of some dude on another website/article is of no use here. You need to use facts not other interpretations of facts. Edited by Sasuke, : edit Edited by Sasuke, : edit
OPEN YOUR MIND! Sasuke!
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 396 by ICANT, posted 09-08-2009 5:34 PM | | ICANT has not replied |
|
Sasuke
Member (Idle past 5182 days) Posts: 137 Joined: 08-21-2009
|
|
|
Message 399 of 687 (523168)
09-08-2009 5:46 PM
|
Reply to: Message 394 by ICANT
09-08-2009 5:13 PM
|
|
Re: Time
ICANT, this is irrelevant to their being a spacetime continuum. In much the same way one can count forever until they die, so shall points between events until the universe dies.
OPEN YOUR MIND! Sasuke!
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 394 by ICANT, posted 09-08-2009 5:13 PM | | ICANT has not replied |
|
Sasuke
Member (Idle past 5182 days) Posts: 137 Joined: 08-21-2009
|
Re: Time
I never knew you were a blond dike.. Edited by Sasuke, : No reason given.
OPEN YOUR MIND! Sasuke!
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 410 by cavediver, posted 09-08-2009 6:54 PM | | cavediver has not replied |
|
Sasuke
Member (Idle past 5182 days) Posts: 137 Joined: 08-21-2009
|
LORD mike the wiz, I am still looking for data in the genesis accounts of the bible that contradict abiogenesis. Edited by Sasuke, : No reason given. Edited by Sasuke, : No reason given.
OPEN YOUR MIND! Sasuke!
|
Sasuke
Member (Idle past 5182 days) Posts: 137 Joined: 08-21-2009
|
|
|
Message 430 of 687 (523296)
09-09-2009 11:48 AM
|
Reply to: Message 428 by cavediver
09-09-2009 11:20 AM
|
|
Re: There is no design
cavediver,
cavediver writes: What's that you say? God's design is much much better than our design? Is it? Do you have an example of this divine design, as the only examples of design I know are all examples of human design. why are we seeking questions about human design? what does it have to do with anything? It is not contrary to evolution, ID, or creation.
OPEN YOUR MIND! Sasuke!
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 428 by cavediver, posted 09-09-2009 11:20 AM | | cavediver has not replied |
|
Sasuke
Member (Idle past 5182 days) Posts: 137 Joined: 08-21-2009
|
Re: There is no design
mike, everything is a argument it dont matter if it is evolution, creation, ID. There is no way to be absolute about it. I hate it when people try to claim that there is but there is no way to be absolute about it. The idea of string theory is a really good example. However there are some things I can conclude as mythological. Look at history, how many faiths are there? Is it not true that every culture in history has its own faith? So why would anyone in there right mind, knowing that every culture has its own faith that christianity is truth? Come on man be objective don't assume christianity just because you want to. It is not logical to assume a god that you have never SEEN or HEARD or TOUCHED created the universe. Even if there was such a thing, I am sure you could never understand this "being". and speaking of such things, why would this being that has existed for an eternity care about moral character? all Humans live and die for peats sake.. And dont tell me that a biological being could at one time under different circumstances live for an eternity but then because he ate from a tree of good and evil that caused them to live less time or some hog wash.. We are here.. this is our reality.. henceforth, every view must be tested.. There is no absolute truth.. and faith is not science... you should not be looking at scripture to prove your views scientifically because the views of the writers were nothing like the science views of today... Edited by Sasuke, : edit Edited by Sasuke, : edit
OPEN YOUR MIND! Sasuke!
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 434 by ICANT, posted 09-09-2009 2:59 PM | | Sasuke has replied |
|
Sasuke
Member (Idle past 5182 days) Posts: 137 Joined: 08-21-2009
|
|
|
Message 435 of 687 (523340)
09-09-2009 3:51 PM
|
Reply to: Message 434 by ICANT
09-09-2009 2:59 PM
|
|
Re: Him
ICANT,
icant writes:
Genesis 1:17 tells us God created mankind in His image/likeness. That means we have body, mind, and spirit. Most people consider this scripture to be metaphorical hence the word "image". The word image can and will mean many things but most assume this is refering to the characteristics of god. I really dont think god is biological nor a man either. However there is nothing in the bible that says god is a man this is an assumption. A very selfish assumption really from a galactic perspective.
icant writes:
The body will die. The mind and the spirit are eternal. In the resurrection everyone will receive a new eternal body. This defers in opinion across the planet. The body will die however some religions believe in resurrection and some don't. Another point, there is no fact of the matter to determine if we have a soul/spirit so this is an assumption as well.
icant writes: If biological man evolved from non life he has no spirit and when he dies he dies end of story. I have heard God and after I heard Him I was able to see Him. I do not expect anyone other than a born again child of God to understand that statement. So no reply is necessary.
I was a born again christian about 8-9 years ago and after that I evolved into a latter day saint only to eventually learn all religions are mytholigcal. Anyone can see that from history alone.
icant writes: Scientific fact: non life can not produce life.
It is not a fact it is assumed via natural causality just like the assumption of uniformity of place and time. and I believe in creative evolution. The changes you see in the fossil record were created not mutated in my opinion. It is still evolution because there is still a type of development occuring. I also follow paranormal science, which most would agree is not a science but it is in my opinion because you're dealing with evidence. The problem with it is not that it is hard to conclude if the beings are real it is hard to conclude what they are. I have recorded many evps with many different digital recorders at various times, when only 2 people were present, me and my coinvestigator.. Nobody was near us for miles most of the time and have seen some shadows come directly up to me and depart.. I have recorded clear answers in evps to clear questions, such as, is earl amick here with us today? response........ "yes"..... Anyways, I don't follow religion I follow science... I will admit revelations are nice but however there is no reason to conclude that just because you say in the name of christ at the end of your prayer that it is in fact him responding. Edited by Sasuke, : edit Edited by Sasuke, : edit Edited by Sasuke, : removed Edited by Sasuke, : edit Edited by Sasuke, : No reason given. Edited by Sasuke, : clarity.. sorry bout all the edits.. Edited by Sasuke, : clarity 2 lol Edited by Sasuke, : clarity 3 Edited by Sasuke, : clarit 4 lol Edited by Sasuke, : clarity 5 and done now.. Edited by Sasuke, : I need to work on my clarity skills before I post.. sorry.. lol.. I hope this is the last time..
OPEN YOUR MIND! Sasuke!
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 434 by ICANT, posted 09-09-2009 2:59 PM | | ICANT has not replied |
|
Sasuke
Member (Idle past 5182 days) Posts: 137 Joined: 08-21-2009
|
|
|
Message 443 of 687 (523385)
09-09-2009 9:29 PM
|
Reply to: Message 442 by NosyNed
09-09-2009 9:26 PM
|
|
Re: Time changes
nosyned, this is not going to change his perspective. He is going to be a die hard "born again" christian the rest of his life....
OPEN YOUR MIND! Sasuke!
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 442 by NosyNed, posted 09-09-2009 9:26 PM | | NosyNed has not replied |
|
Sasuke
Member (Idle past 5182 days) Posts: 137 Joined: 08-21-2009
|
|
|
Message 449 of 687 (523403)
09-10-2009 1:34 AM
|
Reply to: Message 444 by ICANT
09-09-2009 9:36 PM
|
|
Re: Genesis Literal Facts
ICANT,
icant writes: It is a fact that non life has never produced life. It is not a fact, it is assumed. There has never been any evidence to suggest life can't come from non life. Affectivly in much the same way we can presume life came from life we can also safely presume life came from non life. There is no reason to conclude one or the other as true or false. If I am wrong prove me wrong. Prove that life can't come from non life. Edited by Sasuke, : edit
OPEN YOUR MIND! Sasuke!
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 444 by ICANT, posted 09-09-2009 9:36 PM | | ICANT has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 457 by ICANT, posted 09-10-2009 8:32 AM | | Sasuke has replied |
|
Sasuke
Member (Idle past 5182 days) Posts: 137 Joined: 08-21-2009
|
|
|
Message 462 of 687 (523463)
09-10-2009 1:46 PM
|
Reply to: Message 457 by ICANT
09-10-2009 8:32 AM
|
|
Re: Life from non Life
ICANT, The issue is what constitutes as being life. Currently our understanding is limited to biological life. Two issues are whether or not non life can in fact produce life and whether or not we understand life perfectly. I will agree non life can't produce life but that does not make it proven. Neither can all the evidence in the world prove life can only come from life. In reality there is no reason to think there is a god cept an assumption and as such we know there are natural laws. Being as it is, it seems non life can produce life based on that observation alone. Edited by Sasuke, : No reason given.
OPEN YOUR MIND! Sasuke!
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 457 by ICANT, posted 09-10-2009 8:32 AM | | ICANT has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 463 by ICANT, posted 09-10-2009 4:32 PM | | Sasuke has replied |
|
Sasuke
Member (Idle past 5182 days) Posts: 137 Joined: 08-21-2009
|
|
|
Message 471 of 687 (523503)
09-10-2009 6:51 PM
|
Reply to: Message 463 by ICANT
09-10-2009 4:32 PM
|
|
Re: Life from non Life
ICANT,
icant writes:
When you add over 150 years of trying to produce life from non life by some pretty good scientist it gains weight. When you consider the last 60 years of that with the best technology available to mankind, science has accomplished a lot. You add all that together and it paints a pretty solid picture that you are not going to get life from non life.
Bravo! Still don't prove it.
icant writes:
All that is necessary is to prove non life can produce life.
Impossible to prove either way.
icant writes:
A natural law being something that just exists. Why does it exist?
Why wouldn't it exist? It just does and the fact that it does is evidence that life came from non life. Evidence can be used many different ways. Try to look at it like you don't know and how many possible stories can you create with a piece of evidence and then as you gather more evidence that is related you can paint a more plausible idea that is not contrary to the whole of evidence. But no matter what you do there is always potential evidence that is missing that could cause a Uturn back to one of the other ideas. It can't be proven and as such it is only plausible or not plausible with varying degrees.
ICANT writes:
My indian blood say you speak with forked tongue. You say: I will agree non life can't produce life. Then you say it seems non life can produce life. Which is it?
That is the question and it can't be proven either way. I think either is plausible. I dont care enough to adopt one or the other I just reason that either is possible. Granted one is a little more plausible than the other, still both are plausible.
OPEN YOUR MIND! Sasuke!
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 463 by ICANT, posted 09-10-2009 4:32 PM | | ICANT has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 472 by ICANT, posted 09-10-2009 8:31 PM | | Sasuke has replied |
|
Sasuke
Member (Idle past 5182 days) Posts: 137 Joined: 08-21-2009
|
|
|
Message 480 of 687 (523543)
09-11-2009 12:32 AM
|
Reply to: Message 472 by ICANT
09-10-2009 8:31 PM
|
|
Re: Evidence God produced Life
ICANT,
History can't be proven.
ICANT writes:
The fact that a law exists requires that there be a law giver. Not true. Laws are discovered and identified in Science.
ICANT writes:
Fact #2 Non life produces no life.
That is not a fact. It is a assumption. Edited by Sasuke, : No reason given. Edited by Sasuke, : No reason given. Edited by Sasuke, : No reason given.
OPEN YOUR MIND! Sasuke!
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 472 by ICANT, posted 09-10-2009 8:31 PM | | ICANT has not replied |
|
™ Version 4.2