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Author Topic:   If you believe the human genome is "designed" why is it such a mess?
Tranquility Base
Inactive Member


Message 16 of 31 (16695)
09-05-2002 7:34 PM
Reply to: Message 10 by Mammuthus
09-05-2002 4:45 AM


Mammuthus
As a genomic scientist I (and all of us) have been noting the conservaiton and introduction of completely new protien families. We have dozens of genomes. But it is early days. The data already is suggestive of distinct kinds and I will predict it will become more so except that the issue of loss vs gain will muddy the waters.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 10 by Mammuthus, posted 09-05-2002 4:45 AM Mammuthus has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 20 by Mammuthus, posted 09-06-2002 4:22 AM Tranquility Base has not replied

  
Tranquility Base
Inactive Member


Message 17 of 31 (16696)
09-05-2002 7:38 PM


The 'mess' of the genome is similar to the 'mess' on your hard drive. It might look like a mess to you but it works just fine. Files all over the place, some split in 30 pieces, temp files everywhere. Very analogous.
And yes, in our model, the fall undoubtedly did affect genomes.

Replies to this message:
 Message 18 by John, posted 09-06-2002 1:50 AM Tranquility Base has not replied
 Message 19 by peter borger, posted 09-06-2002 3:22 AM Tranquility Base has not replied
 Message 21 by Mammuthus, posted 09-06-2002 4:25 AM Tranquility Base has not replied
 Message 22 by nos482, posted 09-06-2002 9:28 AM Tranquility Base has not replied

  
John
Inactive Member


Message 18 of 31 (16717)
09-06-2002 1:50 AM
Reply to: Message 17 by Tranquility Base
09-05-2002 7:38 PM


quote:
Originally posted by Tranquility Base:
The 'mess' of the genome is similar to the 'mess' on your hard drive. It might look like a mess to you but it works just fine. Files all over the place, some split in 30 pieces, temp files everywhere. Very analogous.
And yes, in our model, the fall undoubtedly did affect genomes.

Not a terribly good analogy really. The messier your hard drive gets the less well it functions.
------------------
http://www.hells-handmaiden.com

This message is a reply to:
 Message 17 by Tranquility Base, posted 09-05-2002 7:38 PM Tranquility Base has not replied

  
peter borger
Member (Idle past 7665 days)
Posts: 965
From: australia
Joined: 07-05-2002


Message 19 of 31 (16725)
09-06-2002 3:22 AM
Reply to: Message 17 by Tranquility Base
09-05-2002 7:38 PM


dear TB,
You write:
"The 'mess' of the genome is similar to the 'mess' on your hard drive. It might look like a mess to you but it works just fine. Files all over the place, some split in 30 pieces, temp files everywhere. Very analogous.
And yes, in our model, the fall undoubtedly did affect genomes."
I say:
What model do you refer to? Could you please update me (references). I am also thinking a lot about a new model, since the evolutionary one doesn't work. So I like two read about the one you refer to.
Thanks and best wishes,
Peter

This message is a reply to:
 Message 17 by Tranquility Base, posted 09-05-2002 7:38 PM Tranquility Base has not replied

  
Mammuthus
Member (Idle past 6475 days)
Posts: 3085
From: Munich, Germany
Joined: 08-09-2002


Message 20 of 31 (16731)
09-06-2002 4:22 AM
Reply to: Message 16 by Tranquility Base
09-05-2002 7:34 PM


As a genomic scientist I (and most of the rest of us) have not found evidence of a undefineable "kinds". And conservation of and generation of new protein families in what way supports creationism?
quote:
Originally posted by Tranquility Base:
Mammuthus
As a genomic scientist I (and all of us) have been noting the conservaiton and introduction of completely new protien families. We have dozens of genomes. But it is early days. The data already is suggestive of distinct kinds and I will predict it will become more so except that the issue of loss vs gain will muddy the waters.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 16 by Tranquility Base, posted 09-05-2002 7:34 PM Tranquility Base has not replied

  
Mammuthus
Member (Idle past 6475 days)
Posts: 3085
From: Munich, Germany
Joined: 08-09-2002


Message 21 of 31 (16732)
09-06-2002 4:25 AM
Reply to: Message 17 by Tranquility Base
09-05-2002 7:38 PM


Ah.. please show experimental evidence for the fall..if you cannot your model is wrong
And again, your model predicts an incompetent engineer of a designer if your best analogy is a fragmented computer hard drive. Or at least an extremely lazy one if as you say "It might look like a mess to you but it works just fine".
quote:
Originally posted by Tranquility Base:
The 'mess' of the genome is similar to the 'mess' on your hard drive. It might look like a mess to you but it works just fine. Files all over the place, some split in 30 pieces, temp files everywhere. Very analogous.
And yes, in our model, the fall undoubtedly did affect genomes.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 17 by Tranquility Base, posted 09-05-2002 7:38 PM Tranquility Base has not replied

  
nos482
Inactive Member


Message 22 of 31 (16757)
09-06-2002 9:28 AM
Reply to: Message 17 by Tranquility Base
09-05-2002 7:38 PM


quote:
Originally posted by Tranquility Base:
The 'mess' of the genome is similar to the 'mess' on your hard drive. It might look like a mess to you but it works just fine. Files all over the place, some split in 30 pieces, temp files everywhere. Very analogous.
And yes, in our model, the fall undoubtedly did affect genomes.

Too bad we can't "defrag" the gene pool as well.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 17 by Tranquility Base, posted 09-05-2002 7:38 PM Tranquility Base has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 23 by nator, posted 09-06-2002 11:47 AM nos482 has not replied
 Message 25 by Peter, posted 09-19-2002 4:52 AM nos482 has replied

  
nator
Member (Idle past 2170 days)
Posts: 12961
From: Ann Arbor
Joined: 12-09-2001


Message 23 of 31 (16776)
09-06-2002 11:47 AM
Reply to: Message 22 by nos482
09-06-2002 9:28 AM


quote:
Originally posted by nos482:
quote:
Originally posted by Tranquility Base:
The 'mess' of the genome is similar to the 'mess' on your hard drive. It might look like a mess to you but it works just fine. Files all over the place, some split in 30 pieces, temp files everywhere. Very analogous.
And yes, in our model, the fall undoubtedly did affect genomes.

Too bad we can't "defrag" the gene pool as well.

No kidding!
LOL!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 22 by nos482, posted 09-06-2002 9:28 AM nos482 has not replied

  
mopsveldmuis
Inactive Member


Message 24 of 31 (17610)
09-17-2002 12:50 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by Mammuthus
09-04-2002 8:57 AM


Do we really know enough about the genome to declare it as a mess? Only when we know the function of every single part can we truly make such a sugestion. Do we know all the possible effects that would occur when changing any one part?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by Mammuthus, posted 09-04-2002 8:57 AM Mammuthus has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 26 by Mammuthus, posted 09-19-2002 4:57 AM mopsveldmuis has replied
 Message 27 by Peter, posted 09-19-2002 6:01 AM mopsveldmuis has replied

  
Peter
Member (Idle past 1479 days)
Posts: 2161
From: Cambridgeshire, UK.
Joined: 02-05-2002


Message 25 of 31 (17756)
09-19-2002 4:52 AM
Reply to: Message 22 by nos482
09-06-2002 9:28 AM


quote:
Originally posted by nos482:
Too bad we can't "defrag" the gene pool as well.

Don't let Syamsu hear you say that he might think you
are talking about ethnic cleansing

This message is a reply to:
 Message 22 by nos482, posted 09-06-2002 9:28 AM nos482 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 30 by nos482, posted 09-27-2002 3:40 PM Peter has not replied

  
Mammuthus
Member (Idle past 6475 days)
Posts: 3085
From: Munich, Germany
Joined: 08-09-2002


Message 26 of 31 (17758)
09-19-2002 4:57 AM
Reply to: Message 24 by mopsveldmuis
09-17-2002 12:50 PM


quote:
Originally posted by mopsveldmuis:
Do we really know enough about the genome to declare it as a mess? Only when we know the function of every single part can we truly make such a sugestion. Do we know all the possible effects that would occur when changing any one part?
***************************
We know the effects of deleting parts, large chunks, duplicating etc....do YOU know enough about genomics to declare anything?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 24 by mopsveldmuis, posted 09-17-2002 12:50 PM mopsveldmuis has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 29 by mopsveldmuis, posted 09-27-2002 11:16 AM Mammuthus has not replied

  
Peter
Member (Idle past 1479 days)
Posts: 2161
From: Cambridgeshire, UK.
Joined: 02-05-2002


Message 27 of 31 (17763)
09-19-2002 6:01 AM
Reply to: Message 24 by mopsveldmuis
09-17-2002 12:50 PM


We know what starts and stops look like (don't we),
so if the genome is designed why are there nested
start/stop sequences?
If these were placed in by random mutation after the
event ... the whole creationist argument about beneficial
mutations falls down ... you cannot have both.
Any proposal that contains contradictions is likely to be
itself incorrect. (awaits tons of evolutionary contradictions )

This message is a reply to:
 Message 24 by mopsveldmuis, posted 09-17-2002 12:50 PM mopsveldmuis has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 28 by mopsveldmuis, posted 09-27-2002 11:14 AM Peter has replied

  
mopsveldmuis
Inactive Member


Message 28 of 31 (18422)
09-27-2002 11:14 AM
Reply to: Message 27 by Peter
09-19-2002 6:01 AM


Could you please expand a bit on what you meant by "the whole creationist argument about beneficial mutations"?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 27 by Peter, posted 09-19-2002 6:01 AM Peter has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 31 by Peter, posted 10-01-2002 3:29 AM mopsveldmuis has not replied

  
mopsveldmuis
Inactive Member


Message 29 of 31 (18423)
09-27-2002 11:16 AM
Reply to: Message 26 by Mammuthus
09-19-2002 4:57 AM


No, I'm not an expert on genomics, but I don't think we can call the human genome a mess until we can recreate a better version of it and give it life.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 26 by Mammuthus, posted 09-19-2002 4:57 AM Mammuthus has not replied

  
nos482
Inactive Member


Message 30 of 31 (18443)
09-27-2002 3:40 PM
Reply to: Message 25 by Peter
09-19-2002 4:52 AM


quote:
Originally posted by Peter:
quote:
Originally posted by nos482:
Too bad we can't "defrag" the gene pool as well.

Don't let Syamsu hear you say that he might think you
are talking about ethnic cleansing

Since when is stupidity an ethnic group? From my experience it is a majority.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 25 by Peter, posted 09-19-2002 4:52 AM Peter has not replied

  
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