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Author Topic:   Are Fundamentalists Inherently Immoral
anglagard
Member (Idle past 836 days)
Posts: 2339
From: Socorro, New Mexico USA
Joined: 03-18-2006


Message 1 of 161 (520923)
08-25-2009 1:57 AM


In the discussion on the thread "What Would You Do If You Were God?" starting at Message 84 Dr. Adequate issued a direct challenge to Mike the Wiz to unequivocally condemn rape. In fact he challenged any and all creationists/anti-evolutionists to condemn rape under all circumstances.
So far none have responded.
I think this dilemma should be a thread in and of itself rather than buried within another, therefore the PNT.
I realize this may be seen as baiting to some degree, however, the motto is understanding through discussion. I want to know the reasoning behind not condemning acts considered immoral by any civilized person today; namely rape, slavery, genocide, or physical abuse and degradation of women and children; and why such acts are not firmly and loudly denounced by fundamentalists.
I am confused. The literalists claim that morality is absolute yet they have refused to condemn rape as at least 8 atheists have done so far in the thread I mentioned.
So which side is believes in absolute morality and which believes in relative morality? It appears to me that if something is condoned in the OT, then it is OK under at least some circumstances to fundamentalists while "evolutionists" seem to condemn such behavior under all conditions.
What I expect to is to see either the upstanding rejection of relative morality offered in the OT or more likely the amazing twists of apologetics in defending what any person with the slightest hint of morality would unhesitatingly denounce as evil.
Ball in your court, fundamentalists. Please surprise me.
Faith and belief?
Edited by anglagard, : replace want with expect as the word did not fit in with my desires.
Edited by anglagard, : grammerr
Edited by anglagard, : ID the direct post, still not used to the new update

The idea of the sacred is quite simply one of the most conservative notions in any culture, because it seeks to turn other ideas - uncertainty, progress, change - into crimes.
Salman Rushdie
This rudderless world is not shaped by vague metaphysical forces. It is not God who kills the children. Not fate that butchers them or destiny that feeds them to the dogs. It’s us. Only us. - the character Rorschach in Watchmen

Replies to this message:
 Message 3 by Holyfire23, posted 08-25-2009 11:13 PM anglagard has not replied
 Message 6 by kbertsche, posted 08-25-2009 11:45 PM anglagard has replied
 Message 48 by Modulous, posted 08-27-2009 10:32 AM anglagard has not replied
 Message 147 by mike the wiz, posted 09-09-2009 10:36 AM anglagard has not replied

  
anglagard
Member (Idle past 836 days)
Posts: 2339
From: Socorro, New Mexico USA
Joined: 03-18-2006


Message 24 of 161 (521293)
08-26-2009 8:21 PM
Reply to: Message 6 by kbertsche
08-25-2009 11:45 PM


The Stats so Far
kbertsche writes:
I don't believe your questions or Dr. Adequate's in the other thread are serious. Perhaps that's why he had such a poor response. Your question and thread title aren't baiting, but trolling.
Here are the stats on the 'poor response' so far by those who are/have been active in either thread.
Made or implied against rape under all circumstances -
Atheist and pro-science:
Coragyps Message 117
Parasomnium Message 81
Huntard Message 108
bluescat48 Message 106
lyx2no Message 104
Rahvin Message 103
Theodoric Message 101
Straggler Message 92
Perdition Message 95
Modulous Message 94
Dr Adequate Message 90
Christian and pro-science:
Michamus Message 133
Meldinoor Message 120
Bluejay Message 115
Other/decline to state/don't know and pro-science:
Drosophilla Message 127
Anglagard Message 118
Percy Message 96
Christian and anti-science (remember how interwoven physics, chemistry, geology and biology are? IMO those who don't and have made statements indicating an antagonistic attitude toward at least one and therefore all = anti-science):
holyfire23, evidently fundie Message 3
Peg, mostly fundie but also JW, so a bit different Message 124
Heavily implied but no direct statement I can tag, still obviously against rape under all circumstances:
Taz, atheist, pro-science
Purpledawn, (I think she is a Christian considering the huge knowledge, although her belief system is so sophisticated {like Ringo's}, sometimes hard to tell), pro-science
hooah212002, unknown, pro-science
Refuse to answer up to now:
Mike the Wiz, fundie, anti-science
John 10:10, fundie, anti-science
kbertsche, unknown, unknown (see above comment)
If I have misrepresented anyone here, I deeply apologize, it is purely accidental, and I will correct ASAP after reading.

The idea of the sacred is quite simply one of the most conservative notions in any culture, because it seeks to turn other ideas - uncertainty, progress, change - into crimes.
Salman Rushdie
This rudderless world is not shaped by vague metaphysical forces. It is not God who kills the children. Not fate that butchers them or destiny that feeds them to the dogs. It’s us. Only us. - the character Rorschach in Watchmen

This message is a reply to:
 Message 6 by kbertsche, posted 08-25-2009 11:45 PM kbertsche has seen this message but not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 40 by purpledawn, posted 08-27-2009 6:29 AM anglagard has not replied

  
anglagard
Member (Idle past 836 days)
Posts: 2339
From: Socorro, New Mexico USA
Joined: 03-18-2006


Message 34 of 161 (521330)
08-27-2009 2:33 AM
Reply to: Message 30 by Coyote
08-26-2009 11:14 PM


Re: Morality--but which one?
Coyote, you post here you have to make the statement. We all know which side you are on but there is some formality involved.

The idea of the sacred is quite simply one of the most conservative notions in any culture, because it seeks to turn other ideas - uncertainty, progress, change - into crimes.
Salman Rushdie
This rudderless world is not shaped by vague metaphysical forces. It is not God who kills the children. Not fate that butchers them or destiny that feeds them to the dogs. It’s us. Only us. - the character Rorschach in Watchmen

This message is a reply to:
 Message 30 by Coyote, posted 08-26-2009 11:14 PM Coyote has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 35 by Coyote, posted 08-27-2009 2:59 AM anglagard has replied

  
anglagard
Member (Idle past 836 days)
Posts: 2339
From: Socorro, New Mexico USA
Joined: 03-18-2006


Message 44 of 161 (521369)
08-27-2009 8:27 AM
Reply to: Message 35 by Coyote
08-27-2009 2:59 AM


Re: Morality--but which one?
Can you or can you not state that rape is wrong under all circumstances?
If you can't, I will have to list your alias under decline to state along with John 10:10 and Mike the Wiz when compiling the stats.
If I missed your formal statement in a previous post, please accept my apologies.

The idea of the sacred is quite simply one of the most conservative notions in any culture, because it seeks to turn other ideas - uncertainty, progress, change - into crimes.
Salman Rushdie
This rudderless world is not shaped by vague metaphysical forces. It is not God who kills the children. Not fate that butchers them or destiny that feeds them to the dogs. It’s us. Only us. - the character Rorschach in Watchmen

This message is a reply to:
 Message 35 by Coyote, posted 08-27-2009 2:59 AM Coyote has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 65 by Asgara, posted 08-27-2009 7:29 PM anglagard has not replied

  
anglagard
Member (Idle past 836 days)
Posts: 2339
From: Socorro, New Mexico USA
Joined: 03-18-2006


Message 45 of 161 (521370)
08-27-2009 8:35 AM
Reply to: Message 29 by Holyfire23
08-26-2009 11:07 PM


Equivocating will force me to recatergorize your stance.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 29 by Holyfire23, posted 08-26-2009 11:07 PM Holyfire23 has not replied

  
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