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Author Topic:   Is God Self-Evident
Straggler
Member (Idle past 93 days)
Posts: 10333
From: London England
Joined: 09-30-2006


Message 5 of 155 (522118)
09-01-2009 9:24 AM
Reply to: Message 3 by iano
09-01-2009 8:17 AM


Hey Iano.
Perhaps it's because he choses not to be self-evident? A common enough view of the Christian God is that he does precisely this as part of an overall plan in which folk are given the opportunity to decide whether they want to spend eternity with God and what he represents or whether they don't.
I still fail to see why he would want this decision to be made on the basis of faith rather than fact?
If they could see God exactly as he is then their ability not to believe what he says would be fatally compromised. And along with it, their ability to chose not to spend eternity with him and what he represents.
Not if we have genuine free-will. Not if we are genuinely capable of being "evil".
Biblical faith is based on evidence: God reveals his existance to the person that he exists so his existance becomes fact.
Well..... So some believe.
Edited by Straggler, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 3 by iano, posted 09-01-2009 8:17 AM iano has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 11 by iano, posted 09-01-2009 6:13 PM Straggler has replied

  
Straggler
Member (Idle past 93 days)
Posts: 10333
From: London England
Joined: 09-30-2006


Message 10 of 155 (522201)
09-01-2009 5:58 PM
Reply to: Message 9 by Teapots&unicorns
09-01-2009 3:56 PM


Re: A Great Site
I read the link and I am unimpressed.
It's whole premise is to speculate on the mind of God and then demonstrate why that presumed thinking is fallacious.
If it wants to appeal to the converted (i.e. atheists) then it might do so to some extent. But few thinking theists would give these arguments much credence on the basis that if the premise is flawed so are the conclusions.
Some less thinking theists might be stumped. But frankly they are not usually difficult to stump anyway.
Sorry............

This message is a reply to:
 Message 9 by Teapots&unicorns, posted 09-01-2009 3:56 PM Teapots&unicorns has seen this message but not replied

  
Straggler
Member (Idle past 93 days)
Posts: 10333
From: London England
Joined: 09-30-2006


Message 12 of 155 (522205)
09-01-2009 6:37 PM
Reply to: Message 11 by iano
09-01-2009 6:13 PM


Hi there Straggler..
Woohoo! I for one am glad to have you back in the EvC fold.
Let's have a look see. We're assuming God exists and we're taking a look at the (posited) mechanism of salvation.
Fact: God exists.
Fact: There is absolute right and wrong. What he says is right is right and what he says is wrong is wrong.
Erm OK. For the sake of argument if nothing else I will accept this I think? But I am still completely bemused as to why faith rather than fact is God's chosen means of enlightenment, salvation and whatever else?
Are you just saying it this way because he says that is what he wants? Is that what you are saying?
Later dude...
I have enough EvC stuff on my plate at the moment!! But you are my favourite theistic opponent so I felt compelled to at least question your answers!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 11 by iano, posted 09-01-2009 6:13 PM iano has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 17 by iano, posted 09-02-2009 10:22 AM Straggler has not replied

  
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