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Author Topic:   Heaven: How to Get In
Otto Tellick
Member (Idle past 2352 days)
Posts: 288
From: PA, USA
Joined: 02-17-2008


Message 3 of 91 (522552)
09-03-2009 10:23 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by Teapots&unicorns
09-03-2009 11:10 AM


I suspect it would be the case that there is only one necessary and sufficient condition: After you are dead, the people who are still alive and who knew you (or know about you) believe that you must be in heaven. This would be the case for any and every religion or denomination that subscribes to a belief in heaven.
The particular actions, habits and/or personality traits that people consider to be criterial for deciding whether you (the dead person they knew) are now in heaven will of course vary from one culture/sect to another, and even from one person to another within a given culture or sect: it depends on whether you've killed enough of the right people, whether you've been prosperous enough, whether you've been generous / kind / responsible / punctual, what you ate or whether you had what folks considered to be proper hygiene, grooming and dress.
Whatever... but if there is a consensus among the people you leave behind, and they all don't think you're in heaven, you simply can't be there. No way.
{AbE} I'm no expert on this, but I think there may be some creeds that have a concept of "eternal afterlife" yet don't really posit more than one place to go. For subscribers to that sort of concept (surely there are some), all you have to do is die, and everybody gets the same deal. But I understand that the question for this thread is not addressed to such folks, because it implies a presupposed alternative, "... as opposed to not going to heaven."
Edited by Otto Tellick, : (added last paragraph)

autotelic adj. (of an entity or event) having within itself the purpose of its existence or happening.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by Teapots&unicorns, posted 09-03-2009 11:10 AM Teapots&unicorns has seen this message but not replied

  
Otto Tellick
Member (Idle past 2352 days)
Posts: 288
From: PA, USA
Joined: 02-17-2008


Message 5 of 91 (522565)
09-04-2009 1:19 AM
Reply to: Message 4 by ICANT
09-03-2009 10:43 PM


And "born again" means... what, exactly?
I think the OP's request was for something a bit more specific, ICANT.
Given a question like "how does one get from A to B?", you seem to be giving the answer "By getting there." Well, duh.
But this type of answer shows exactly what the problem is. You know that you're born again because you know it. Of course, maybe you go through some periods between now and deathbed where you might doubt or wonder whether you really are saved, or whether you've relapsed to a failed condition. The bottom line is, you will not and cannot know whether you'll get in until you get in (or not), and of course, at that point, no one else has any real basis for knowing what really happened to you.
It's the perfect weasel: irrefutable because its unverifiable. I can assert with as much certainty as you that I'll be going to the same heaven you're going to, even though I'm not working on the same criteria as you are. You can argue all you want, but you can't prove me wrong -- not ever. How far would you go in trying?
Anyway, if you can provide anything more detailed or specific about your criteria for entry, it would be considerably more useful than "get born again." Thanks.

autotelic adj. (of an entity or event) having within itself the purpose of its existence or happening.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 4 by ICANT, posted 09-03-2009 10:43 PM ICANT has not replied

  
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