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Author Topic:   How is Natural selection a mechanism?
ringo
Member
Posts: 18854
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 3.5


Message 62 of 191 (815379)
07-19-2017 4:25 PM
Reply to: Message 61 by NoNukes
07-19-2017 4:16 PM


NoNukes writes:

If you don't have children, then you are not participating in evolution.


You're still participating in selection. Whenever you kill something before it can reproduce, you're removing its genes from the pool.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 61 by NoNukes, posted 07-19-2017 4:16 PM NoNukes has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 64 by NoNukes, posted 07-20-2017 5:11 AM ringo has responded

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 18854
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 3.5


Message 67 of 191 (815463)
07-20-2017 11:37 AM
Reply to: Message 64 by NoNukes
07-20-2017 5:11 AM


NoNukes writes:

Except that the statement did not say anything about killing something.


I was responding to your statement, not the one you were responding to. I wanted to point out that we're always participating in selection, whether it's our species or another.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 64 by NoNukes, posted 07-20-2017 5:11 AM NoNukes has acknowledged this reply

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 18854
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 3.5


Message 123 of 191 (816111)
07-29-2017 11:48 AM
Reply to: Message 118 by AndrewPD
07-28-2017 2:09 PM


quote:
Careful examination of the evidence for Darwinian theory should be encouraged.

That's what science is all about.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 118 by AndrewPD, posted 07-28-2017 2:09 PM AndrewPD has not yet responded

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 18854
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 3.5


Message 126 of 191 (816115)
07-29-2017 12:32 PM
Reply to: Message 125 by AndrewPD
07-29-2017 12:17 PM


AndrewPD writes:

... why does inanimate or soulless matter or genetic information care to survive or try to in such elaborate ways?


Why does hydrogen chose to burn in the presence of oxygen?

Chemistry.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 125 by AndrewPD, posted 07-29-2017 12:17 PM AndrewPD has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 128 by AndrewPD, posted 07-29-2017 12:35 PM ringo has responded

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 18854
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 3.5


Message 131 of 191 (816157)
07-30-2017 2:08 PM
Reply to: Message 128 by AndrewPD
07-29-2017 12:35 PM


AndrewPD writes:

There is no motivation involved there it just happens instantaneously.


Then why do you expect "motivation" for molecules changing from non-living to living?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 128 by AndrewPD, posted 07-29-2017 12:35 PM AndrewPD has responded

Replies to this message:
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ringo
Member
Posts: 18854
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 3.5


Message 143 of 191 (816307)
08-02-2017 3:27 PM
Reply to: Message 138 by AndrewPD
08-02-2017 12:14 PM


AndrewPD writes:

It is not what I expect it is what we see.


No, it is not what "we" see at all. "We" see the emergent properties of chemicals. Hydrogen and oxygen react as they do because of their properties. The same is true of all chemical entities. No matter how elaborate the process is, the process is determined by the properties of the constituents, nothing else.

AndrewPD writes:

This is beyond a basic picture of instant deterministic causation. It is also serious entropy reversal (which I think has been a valid criticism of the theory)


Entropy is only one part of the equation. Entropy can increase or decrease in any individual process.

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 Message 138 by AndrewPD, posted 08-02-2017 12:14 PM AndrewPD has not yet responded

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 18854
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 3.5


Message 180 of 191 (816625)
08-08-2017 12:05 PM
Reply to: Message 170 by AndrewPD
08-05-2017 1:51 PM


AndrewPD writes:

Here is a simple analogy of entropy.
You drop an uncooked egg and it shatters.


Entropy is not about organization of "stuff"; it's about organization of energy. The entropy of a shattered egg is not necessarily more than the entropy of an intact egg. If you put an egg on a cold surface and its heat dissipates to the surface, that is entropy. It doesn't even matter if the egg is shattered or whole.

The amount of information doesn't necessarily change either when the "stuff" is rearranged.

AndrewPD writes:

Human interventions do seem to effect entropy because volitional actions and intelligent perception allow us to create improbable states of order.


But life is not an improbable state of order.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 170 by AndrewPD, posted 08-05-2017 1:51 PM AndrewPD has not yet responded

  
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