|
QuickSearch
Thread ▼ Details |
|
Thread Info
|
|
|
Author | Topic: How is Natural selection a mechanism? | ||||||||||||||||||||||
Coyote Member (Idle past 850 days) Posts: 6117 Joined: |
No. Mutations may be harmful, neutral, or beneficial. And, there are many potential mutations that occur at the same time, in varying degrees of harmful, neutral, or beneficial. Natural selection is the arbiter of which of these mutations, or combination of mutations, are most successful within a particular environment. And to make matters more complicated, there are changes that occur that don't involve mutations--this field is called epigenetics. Perhaps the biologists here will provide some information on this aspect. So, the answer to your question is no. Religious belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge.
|
||||||||||||||||||||||
Coyote Member (Idle past 850 days) Posts: 6117 Joined: |
That because those are virtually the only folks nowadays who are questioning the theory of evolution. Science concluded that the theory was the best explanation for the data over a century ago, and there has been no need to revise that conclusion. Rather, the data keep coming in on the side of evolution. Example: DNA, unknown in Darwin's day, could have shown that Darwin was wrong and that another theory was more accurate. This hasn't happened. Example: There were almost no hominid fossils recognized when Darwin published in 1859 (the Neanderthal specimen was found only three years earlier, and was not understood at the time). The masses of hominid fossils found since then could have shown that the theory of evolution was incorrect, but instead they have supported it. And, for the most part, those arguing against the theory of evolution (whether biblical creationist zealots or not) are doing so because of religious, not scientific, reasons. They want the theory to be wrong because they disagree--for religious reasons--with its conclusions. On natural selection: Here is an experiment. Roll 25 dice in an attempt to get all sixes. If you try to get all 25 dice to show a six on one roll you'll be there for years. However, mutations and natural selection don't work that way. Here is a more accurate way to look at it. Roll those 25 dice, then pick up and reroll any dice that is not a six. You'll have all sixes in just a few minutes. While not a perfect example, that is closer to the way evolution works. Religious belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge.
|
||||||||||||||||||||||
Coyote Member (Idle past 850 days) Posts: 6117 Joined: |
Perhaps your view of the time things take is flawed. How much time would you consider adequate for the evolution of Homo ergaster, Homo erectus, Homo heidelbergensis, and Homo neanderthalensis, the first three of which are most likely in the human line? Paleontologists would put this on the order of two million years. Would you consider that impossible--just not enough time for it to happen? Religious belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge.
|
||||||||||||||||||||||
Coyote Member (Idle past 850 days) Posts: 6117 Joined: |
So you consider two million years adequate to accomplish these changes (which amount to speciation)? (The changes may seem to be the "same basic bone structure, etc." but they include a considerable increase in brain size, among other changes.)
Perhaps successful adaptation to niches and slower changes in environment. That's not my field so someone else will have to weigh in on that part. Religious belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge.
|
||||||||||||||||||||||
Coyote Member (Idle past 850 days) Posts: 6117 Joined: |
Please provide a source for this. (And don't bother citing creationist websites; they lie.) Religious belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge.
|
||||||||||||||||||||||
Coyote Member (Idle past 850 days) Posts: 6117 Joined: |
That's easy! Here is a fine example: Historical contingency and the evolution of a key innovation in an experimental population of Escherichia coli Now I know that creationists like to pretend this is not new genetic information, and that it is just adaptation. Unfortunately, that isn't true and repetition won't make it true. Religious belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge.
|
||||||||||||||||||||||
Coyote Member (Idle past 850 days) Posts: 6117 Joined: |
These are examples of evolution. Its not our fault that creationists expect evolution to be something on the order of a crocodile giving birth to a chicken. If we were to find such an occurrence, then much of what we know about evolution would probably be wrong.
Macro-evolution (primarily a creationist term now) is the result of many small mutations, or micro-evolutions. Creationists dispute this, but they have never been able to propose a mechanism that halts micro-evolutions when they add up, lest they become a macro-evolution.
That's been observed in the fossil record, which is confirmed by the genetic record.
That's no problem. Even many creationists have no problem with the timeline. Woodmorappe and Lubenow, for example, see Homo ergaster, Homo erectus, Homo heidelbergensis, and Homo neanderthalensis as racial variants of modern man descended from Adam and Eve, most likely arising after the separation of people groups after Babel. This puts the rate of evolution several hundred times faster than that proposed by paleontologists (and in reverse). So if you want to dispute the timeline, better start with creationists. (We'll take on the winner--except in religious battles there are no winners, there are only schisms and more denominations). Religious belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge.
|
||||||||||||||||||||||
Coyote Member (Idle past 850 days) Posts: 6117 Joined: |
Virtually the only folks worldwide who question the theory of evolution are religious fundamentalists. Scientists, up to about 99.9%, accept the theory; the numbers are higher among biological and genetic scientists and much lower among mathematicians and engineers (who are not actually scientists in most cases).
That was not his best moment.
True science? What a joke! Creationists are trying to define "true science" as any science which does not contradict their religious beliefs. Sorry, it doesn't work that way. Any field of study which follows the scientific method is a "true" science whether creationist say yea or nay. And why should we listen to what creationists or fundamentalists say about science anyway? Creationism and religious fundamentalism are the antithesis (that means the opposite) of science. If we were to do all that the fundamentalists were promoting we would be back in the Dark Ages. Sorry, that time has passed and its not coming back again. We've experienced the Enlightenment, which showed us that we no longer have to kowtow to the shamans. Religious belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge.
|
||||||||||||||||||||||
Coyote Member (Idle past 850 days) Posts: 6117 Joined: |
You do realize, don't you, that "Belief gets in the way of learning." Those who accept a belief in creationism can easily compartmentalize all of their scientific training and "believe six impossible things before breakfast." When they are applying the creationist "method" (belief) to things they are no longer doing science. To do science one must follow the scientific method, which is the exact opposite. Religious belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge. Belief gets in the way of learning--Robert A. Heinlein In the name of diversity, college student demands to be kept in ignorance of the culture that made diversity a value--StultisTheFool It's not what we don't know that hurts, it's what we know that ain't so--Will Rogers If I am entitled to something, someone else is obliged to pay--Jerry Pournelle If a religion's teachings are true, then it should have nothing to fear from science...--dwise1 "Multiculturalism" demands that the US be tolerant of everything except its own past, culture, traditions, and identity. Liberals claim to want to give a hearing to other views, but then are shocked and offended to discover that there are other points of view--William F. Buckley Jr.
|
|
|
Do Nothing Button
Copyright 2001-2018 by EvC Forum, All Rights Reserved
Version 4.0 Beta
Innovative software from Qwixotic © 2021