Understanding through Discussion


Welcome! You are not logged in. [ Login ]
EvC Forum active members: 83 (9005 total)
56 online now:
Aussie, Hyroglyphx, jar, PaulK, Tangle, vimesey (6 members, 50 visitors)
Newest Member: kanthesh
Upcoming Birthdays: AdminPhat
Post Volume: Total: 881,038 Year: 12,786/23,288 Month: 511/1,527 Week: 190/207 Day: 12/39 Hour: 0/0

Announcements: Topic abandonment warning (read and/or suffer the consequences)


Thread  Details

Email This Thread
Newer Topic | Older Topic
  
Author Topic:   EVOLUTION'S FRAUD HAS CONTRIBUTED TO ITS PUBLIC ACCEPTANCE:
Admin
Director
Posts: 12705
From: EvC Forum
Joined: 06-14-2002


Message 179 of 323 (525394)
09-23-2009 9:17 AM


Statement of Intention to Moderate this Discussion
Tomorrow morning I will begin actively moderating this discussion. My goals are to focus attention back on the topic, and to eliminate violations of rule 10:

  1. Always treat other members with respect. Argue the position, not the person. Avoid abusive, harassing and invasive behavior. Avoid needling, hectoring and goading tactics.

Tomorrow morning I will post a brief note announcing that I have begun moderation, and violations of the Forum Guidelines appearing after that post will bring short (at least initially) suspensions.

The key part of rule 10 is, "Argue the position, not the person." Just so there's no ambiguity about my interpretation of rule 10, violations of this rule often correlate with use of the word "you."


--Percy
EvC Forum Director

  
Admin
Director
Posts: 12705
From: EvC Forum
Joined: 06-14-2002


Message 221 of 323 (525663)
09-24-2009 7:28 AM


Moderator Now on Duty
I'm now beginning moderation of this thread and will no longer be participating as Percy.


--Percy
EvC Forum Director

  
Admin
Director
Posts: 12705
From: EvC Forum
Joined: 06-14-2002


Message 223 of 323 (525669)
09-24-2009 7:54 AM
Reply to: Message 212 by Archangel
09-24-2009 1:13 AM


Archangel writes:

My quote in the OP regarding the Orce fossil was a direct quote of the claims made in the source I linked to. So I needn't defend it any further than that.

The purpose of a debate board like this one is to outline, support and defend one's positions, so your statement that you "needn't defend it any further than that" is incorrect.

Talk Origin says about it. Interestingly, it still doesn't acknowledge that it's a fraud, but in usual fashion for evolutionists, it just makes excuses and obfuscates any knowledge of a fraud.

http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/homs/a_orce.html

Here's another mention of it by T.O.

http://www.talkorigins.org/indexcc/CC/CC021.html

Bare links should not be offered in place of your own arguments. Under most circumstances links should be used only as references. This is from the Forum Guidelines:

  1. Bare links with no supporting discussion should be avoided. Make the argument in your own words and use links as supporting references.

Before you can validly note that TO has dishonestly failed to concede that Orce Man was a fraud, you first have to make your case that it actually was a fraud, which is what Granny Magda has requested.

Please, no replies to this message.


--Percy
EvC Forum Director

This message is a reply to:
 Message 212 by Archangel, posted 09-24-2009 1:13 AM Archangel has not yet responded

  
Admin
Director
Posts: 12705
From: EvC Forum
Joined: 06-14-2002


Message 232 of 323 (525796)
09-24-2009 4:50 PM
Reply to: Message 230 by Archangel
09-24-2009 4:23 PM


Re: still not a fraud!
Archangel writes:

Since Percy is allowing you to speak to me in your sanctimonious and condescending tone...

I would like both sides to ratchet it down and focus on the topic.

The goal of EvC Forum is to provide a venue for discussions that actually make progress toward finding common ground and mutual understanding. One part of your position (but not the only one) that no one understands is why you think things like Orce man and Coelacanth are frauds. I think if you just explain your reasons clearly that it would go a long way toward moving discussion productively forward.

Please, no replies to this message.


--Percy
EvC Forum Director

This message is a reply to:
 Message 230 by Archangel, posted 09-24-2009 4:23 PM Archangel has not yet responded

  
Admin
Director
Posts: 12705
From: EvC Forum
Joined: 06-14-2002


Message 233 of 323 (525799)
09-24-2009 4:53 PM


To Everyone
Continued ad hominem will begin resulting in suspensions soon. I've just started moderating this thread, so let's reset our passions to zero and focus on the topic.


--Percy
EvC Forum Director

  
Admin
Director
Posts: 12705
From: EvC Forum
Joined: 06-14-2002


Message 253 of 323 (525894)
09-25-2009 7:35 AM


This Thread Reopened
Adminnemooseus and I have not had a chance to discuss whether or not this thread should be closed, so I'm reopening it in the meantime.

Please keep discussion focused on the topic of discussion. Specifically, do not complain about treatment by other participants in this thread.

This is the thread for reporting problems with discussion: Report discussion problems here: No.2. Before reporting a problem I suggest making very sure your own behavior has been above reproach.


--Percy
EvC Forum Director

  
Admin
Director
Posts: 12705
From: EvC Forum
Joined: 06-14-2002


Message 257 of 323 (525930)
09-25-2009 9:16 AM
Reply to: Message 256 by Dr Adequate
09-25-2009 8:49 AM


Re: Thoughts On The Paranoid Mind
I know Archangel left himself wide open for these types of replies, but let's keep the focus on the topic. The ball's in Archangel's court right now. If he chooses to reply then the discussion can continue.


--Percy
EvC Forum Director

This message is a reply to:
 Message 256 by Dr Adequate, posted 09-25-2009 8:49 AM Dr Adequate has not yet responded

  
Admin
Director
Posts: 12705
From: EvC Forum
Joined: 06-14-2002


Message 260 of 323 (525938)
09-25-2009 9:40 AM
Reply to: Message 258 by Archangel
09-25-2009 9:32 AM


Re: In rebuttal to false claims of submitting evidence by evos.
Hi Archangel,

I really need everyone to begin addressing their responses to the topic. This usually takes the form of offering evidence and argument for one's position. If you'd like to discuss some other topic, then please propose it over at Proposed New Topics.


--Percy
EvC Forum Director

This message is a reply to:
 Message 258 by Archangel, posted 09-25-2009 9:32 AM Archangel has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 265 by Archangel, posted 09-25-2009 11:57 AM Admin has responded

  
Admin
Director
Posts: 12705
From: EvC Forum
Joined: 06-14-2002


Message 269 of 323 (526013)
09-25-2009 1:45 PM
Reply to: Message 265 by Archangel
09-25-2009 11:57 AM


Re: In rebuttal to false claims of submitting evidence by evos.
Hi Archangel,

Let me try to help coax discussion back to the topic by focusing attention on one thing at a time. I did notice your bolding of "argument", but note that I did say "evidence and argument." You can't just argue, you have to build your arguments around evidence.

You said something important in Message 268:

Archangel writes:

All it means is that we don't have all of the facts needed in order to come to a naturally explained conclusion for what we observe. And I'm honest enough, unlike you, to admit that applies to me too.

So keeping this in mind, let's focus on just one thing, the evidence for fraud concerning Orce man. Is there evidence that Orce man is a fraud? If so, please describe it. Please try to avoid hearsay evidence.

You can respond to this message, but address your response to the other participants. Now that I'm moderating I'm just trying to channel discussion onto productive avenues. I'm no longer a participant.


--Percy
EvC Forum Director

This message is a reply to:
 Message 265 by Archangel, posted 09-25-2009 11:57 AM Archangel has not yet responded

  
Admin
Director
Posts: 12705
From: EvC Forum
Joined: 06-14-2002


Message 276 of 323 (526081)
09-25-2009 8:43 PM
Reply to: Message 272 by Archangel
09-25-2009 8:20 PM


Hi Archangel,

I'm only trying to bring some structure to the discussion. So we've established that there is no evidence that Orce man is a fraud, so let's move on to the Coelacanth. Please describe the evidence that the Coelacanth is a fraud.


--Percy
EvC Forum Director

This message is a reply to:
 Message 272 by Archangel, posted 09-25-2009 8:20 PM Archangel has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 278 by Archangel, posted 09-25-2009 9:04 PM Admin has responded

  
Admin
Director
Posts: 12705
From: EvC Forum
Joined: 06-14-2002


Message 291 of 323 (526215)
09-26-2009 8:35 AM
Reply to: Message 278 by Archangel
09-25-2009 9:04 PM


Moderator Feedback
Hi Archangel,

If you would like to spend more time supporting your claim that Orce man is a fraud then that would be fine, but please keep the discussion grounded in evidence. When you're done discussing Orce man we can move on to the evidence for fraud surrounding the Coelacanth.

To everyone,

I'd like to encourage everyone to please keep the discussion civil, dispassionate, and focused on the topic. In particular, please avoid disparaging remarks about the other side as it encourages incivility, which is often the biggest barrier to open communication.


--Percy
EvC Forum Director

This message is a reply to:
 Message 278 by Archangel, posted 09-25-2009 9:04 PM Archangel has not yet responded

  
Admin
Director
Posts: 12705
From: EvC Forum
Joined: 06-14-2002


Message 304 of 323 (526521)
09-28-2009 8:37 AM


Moderator Advisory
Some are paying attention to moderator requests, some aren't. Today I will begin more stringent enforcement. I will not only be hiding off-topic content, I will also begin issuing suspensions for repeated off-topic discussion.

I'm also going to begin issuing suspensions for incivility. Each side should regard the other as the esteemed opposition, not the scum of the earth, at least in your public expressions.

If you post in violation of these requests before reading this, fix it quick before I see it.

Please, no replies to this message.


--Percy
EvC Forum Director

  
Admin
Director
Posts: 12705
From: EvC Forum
Joined: 06-14-2002


(1)
Message 308 of 323 (526747)
09-29-2009 8:50 AM
Reply to: Message 307 by Archangel
09-29-2009 8:26 AM


Archangel writes:

And one more thing, how long must I respond to issues just because evolutionists will continue to reject anything I say? Since when do moderators determine for me when I have defended a position enough before moving on to another subject?

I'm just focusing current discussion on Orce man as per your request in Message 278. You're more than welcome to move on to the Coelacanth if that is your wish. The off-topic discussion focused mostly on Neanderthals as fraud, so if you'd like to discuss that next instead then that would be fine (use the peek or edit buttons and copy/paste to reuse your text in new messages). I'm just here to bring some structure to the discussion, and to ensure that incivility doesn't cause the thread to spin out control. I'm not taking sides.

I admire your passion, but if frauds have advanced acceptance of evolution among the public then evidence and rational argument is all you need. Acting antagonistically by doing things like questioning the honesty of the people you're discussing with isn't a very effective method of persuasion (e.g., "You people are so dishonest..." in Message 103 and so forth), plus it's against the Forum Guidelines, see rule 10.


--Percy
EvC Forum Director

This message is a reply to:
 Message 307 by Archangel, posted 09-29-2009 8:26 AM Archangel has not yet responded

  
Admin
Director
Posts: 12705
From: EvC Forum
Joined: 06-14-2002


Message 313 of 323 (528491)
10-06-2009 9:57 AM


Summation Time
There have been no posts to this forum in a week, so it's summation time!

Please post your summations or final arguments over the next couple days, after that I will close the thread. Please, no replies to other people's summations.


--Percy
EvC Forum Director

Replies to this message:
 Message 315 by RAZD, posted 10-06-2009 5:57 PM Admin has acknowledged this reply

  
Newer Topic | Older Topic
Jump to:


Copyright 2001-2018 by EvC Forum, All Rights Reserved

™ Version 4.0 Beta
Innovative software from Qwixotic © 2020