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Author
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Topic: A Modern Day Miracle Man - Establishes the Supernatural Realm
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Theodoric
Member Posts: 9197 From: Northwest, WI, USA Joined: 08-15-2005 Member Rating: 3.2
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Message 11 of 297 (525695)
09-24-2009 9:43 AM
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Reply to: Message 6 by Cedre
09-24-2009 8:55 AM
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Re: A Challenge
Provide original evidence of his original prophecies with original dates. If you cannot do this it is not even worth trying to discuss this with you. The Wiki page seems to have been written by supporters. A line like this shows this is not an objective profile.
quote:
Many who have come to the church possessed by evil spirits are said to be delivered following prayer from T. B. Joshua.
If you follow the references none of them go to original source material, they go to news articles or religious sites. Also, more than one lights up my anti virus software.
Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 6 by Cedre, posted 09-24-2009 8:55 AM | | Cedre has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 12 by Cedre, posted 09-24-2009 9:55 AM | | Theodoric has replied |
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Theodoric
Member Posts: 9197 From: Northwest, WI, USA Joined: 08-15-2005 Member Rating: 3.2
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Message 13 of 297 (525698)
09-24-2009 10:08 AM
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Reply to: Message 12 by Cedre
09-24-2009 9:55 AM
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Re: A Challenge
So you are not willing to provide any additional evidence for you assertions? That's fine. I will just file this away as more bs. You really should be prepared to provide more evidence when you make such outlandish claims. I am not going to waste any more time researching this fraud. If you are willing to provide real evidence fine. If not, I won't waste my time with you.
News articles are generally accurate
What?? I have no idea who or what these articles come from. These "news" organizations referenced mean nothing to me. Have you never heard of bias? News articles are not original source material. Without the original source material you have nothing Edited by Theodoric, : News article rant
Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 12 by Cedre, posted 09-24-2009 9:55 AM | | Cedre has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 14 by Cedre, posted 09-24-2009 10:27 AM | | Theodoric has replied |
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Theodoric
Member Posts: 9197 From: Northwest, WI, USA Joined: 08-15-2005 Member Rating: 3.2
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Message 15 of 297 (525707)
09-24-2009 10:41 AM
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Reply to: Message 14 by Cedre
09-24-2009 10:27 AM
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Re: A Challenge
So I take this as asserting that you are not willing to provide any ORIGINAL source material. Condescension and personal attacks make you look very inadequate. I have tried debating you in the past with the same results. I am sure someone else will bother with you, but unless you provide some evidence and show you can debate in good faith I am done.
Your pretentious statements and remarks do nothing to weaken the evidence before you.
There is no evidence, purely anecdote. Do you even know what an original source is?
Because you're a case hardened atheist, you have a prior-commitment to materialism and naturalism both which deny supernaturalism. You're a bigot in short.
To salvage your pathetic worldview Is that the best you got?
Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 14 by Cedre, posted 09-24-2009 10:27 AM | | Cedre has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 16 by Cedre, posted 09-24-2009 10:50 AM | | Theodoric has not replied |
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Theodoric
Member Posts: 9197 From: Northwest, WI, USA Joined: 08-15-2005 Member Rating: 3.2
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Message 45 of 297 (525757)
09-24-2009 2:03 PM
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Reply to: Message 20 by Cedre
09-24-2009 11:06 AM
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Re: Quit messing around and deal with my points
So amazing are this mans miracles that even Time magazine had to cover him in an article. Helps to confirm your sources. As far as I can tell he was never covered in an article by Time magazine. There is a picture of him on Time.com, but the accompanying article does not mention him at all. Page not found | TIMEIt is not clear whether the article or the picture were online only or made the actual magazine, but a single picture of him does not mean they "covered" him. If you can find this Time article that covers him please do let us know how to find it. I know I said I wasn't going to debate you anymore, but I do feel the need to point out your distortions of fact.
Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 20 by Cedre, posted 09-24-2009 11:06 AM | | Cedre has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 46 by Cedre, posted 09-24-2009 2:12 PM | | Theodoric has not replied |
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Theodoric
Member Posts: 9197 From: Northwest, WI, USA Joined: 08-15-2005 Member Rating: 3.2
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Message 47 of 297 (525760)
09-24-2009 2:13 PM
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Reply to: Message 33 by Perdition
09-24-2009 12:11 PM
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Re: Quit messing around and deal with my points
Since I've never heard of this guy or this church You lucky bastard. I get the classic Jesus wingnuttery emails about once a month. They change email addresses and servers so some times it gets through spam filters.
Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 33 by Perdition, posted 09-24-2009 12:11 PM | | Perdition has not replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 49 by AdminNosy, posted 09-24-2009 2:21 PM | | Theodoric has replied |
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Theodoric
Member Posts: 9197 From: Northwest, WI, USA Joined: 08-15-2005 Member Rating: 3.2
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Bump for Cedre
You have responded to other posts why not this one by Catholic Scientist?
Message 38 Explain how this fits into your faith healer adoration.
Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts
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Theodoric
Member Posts: 9197 From: Northwest, WI, USA Joined: 08-15-2005 Member Rating: 3.2
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Message 51 of 297 (525765)
09-24-2009 2:30 PM
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Reply to: Message 49 by AdminNosy
09-24-2009 2:21 PM
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I am bad at creating relevant post titles
I will try my best to work on that
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 49 by AdminNosy, posted 09-24-2009 2:21 PM | | AdminNosy has not replied |
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Theodoric
Member Posts: 9197 From: Northwest, WI, USA Joined: 08-15-2005 Member Rating: 3.2
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Message 57 of 297 (525775)
09-24-2009 3:08 PM
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Reply to: Message 37 by Rahvin
09-24-2009 12:32 PM
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Maybe a false positve to start
The only evidence produced is the one news article. The newspaper says they have seen the medical reports. Whoopee. As well as false negatives, there are false positives.
quote:
Nonspecific reactions, hypergammaglobulinemia, or the presence of antibodies directed to other infectious agents that may be antigenically similar to HIV can produce false positive results. Autoimmune diseases, such as systemic lupus erythematosus, can also cause false positive results.
Source From same source
quote:
As a result of an increase in false positive rates in 2005, New York City's Department of Health and Mental Hygiene added the option of testing finger-stick whole blood after any reactive result, before using a Western Blot test to confirm the positive result. Following a further increase of false positives in NYC DOHMH STD Clinics during the end of 2007 and beginning of 2008, their clinics opted to forgo further oral screenings, and instead reinsituted testing using finger-stick whole blood.
Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 37 by Rahvin, posted 09-24-2009 12:32 PM | | Rahvin has not replied |
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Theodoric
Member Posts: 9197 From: Northwest, WI, USA Joined: 08-15-2005 Member Rating: 3.2
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Message 58 of 297 (525776)
09-24-2009 3:09 PM
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Reply to: Message 55 by Cedre
09-24-2009 2:46 PM
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Re: Re:Thankyou slevesque
I guess then that these people really were cured of Aids.
No. There is no evidence to say this.
Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 55 by Cedre, posted 09-24-2009 2:46 PM | | Cedre has not replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 60 by slevesque, posted 09-24-2009 3:29 PM | | Theodoric has not replied |
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Theodoric
Member Posts: 9197 From: Northwest, WI, USA Joined: 08-15-2005 Member Rating: 3.2
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Message 112 of 297 (525966)
09-25-2009 10:56 AM
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Reply to: Message 108 by Cedre
09-25-2009 9:58 AM
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Still looking for responses and evidence
You are making it very clear that you, yourself realize that there is no evidence. There have been a number of refutations made that you have failed to address at all. I guess anything that shows he is a charlatan you dismiss out of hand. You have been asked many times now to provide some hard evidence. You have refused to give us the actual prophecies, their dates and the dates of fulfillment. Instead you provide anecdotal evidence and tell us we have to go to this charlatans own website to find any evidence, then when it is noticed that the evidence is doctored you expect us to BUY a dvd from him. WOW!!!! I am amazed that you have ridiculed people for questioning the impartiality of Joshua's website and TV program. There is something you should look into called "critical thinking". I tmight help to at least try a little bit of it. Remember extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. So far you have provided no evidence and your reluctance to provide any speaks volumes. You were specifically asked to address this post Message 38, but of as yet have not.
Catholic Scientist writes: So I found this video on youtube: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h7cGK9OodVY Its all about the subject of this thread. I skipped through most of it, its 25 min., but I did happen to see these words right before the credits at the end, I think its an update for some of the people who were healed in the video: quote:John Rindel went for an AIDS test on April 12, He is still HIV positive. Nine year-old Muller Starke went for medical tests on April 18, His heart condition remains unchanged. Wium Basson died over the weekend. A dude actually died because he thought he was cured. That really sucks. Bad. Why no response from you on this? How about this one? Message 85 Coragyps writes: when you say last Friday of the month, you are referring to the 24th of May, aren't you, that's the date you have been arguing for all along, right. I doubt that's what he means, since May has 31 days. If the 24th is a Friday, it's not the last Friday. Edited by Theodoric, : New subtitle
Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 108 by Cedre, posted 09-25-2009 9:58 AM | | Cedre has not replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 114 by PaulK, posted 09-25-2009 11:01 AM | | Theodoric has not replied |
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Theodoric
Member Posts: 9197 From: Northwest, WI, USA Joined: 08-15-2005 Member Rating: 3.2
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Message 115 of 297 (525976)
09-25-2009 11:23 AM
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Reply to: Message 72 by Cedre
09-25-2009 4:27 AM
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Jets or not Jets
I realize that nothing I say is going to influence you and you will dismiss everything I say out of hand.
Turbo-props are actually a development of the jet engine.
Wrong. It is a development of a turbine engine.
And the plane in question is a turbo-prop, turbo-props are basically referred to as jets with propellers.
Wrong. They are referred to as propeller planes with a turbine. Not a jet engine. A turboprop technically is not a jet aircraft. Every year I get the pleasure of flying in a turboprop Cessna Caravan. It is not and has never been referred to as jet. It does have turbine engine but the output of the turbine is not to provide jet propulsion but to drive the propeller. Though you may see them listed as turboprop jets technically they are not jets and I know of no one, other than you and some creative marketers, that would refer to them as jets. As a matter of fact I have contacted two pilots and two air traffic controllers and none of them would call a turbo prop a jet. One pilot told me that the wiki page on turbo props gives a great explanation why it is not a jet. Turboprop - Wikipedia A turboprop is an internal combustion engine. The turbine is used to drive the propeller. Jets do not have or need propellers. A jet is a reaction engine. The turbine is used to create thrust that drives the aircraft forward. In a turboprop less than 10% of the exhaust creates thrust. Using your logic that a turboprop is a jet because it has a turbine, than you would have to call the US Abrams Tank a jet, because it is also powered by a turbine. Again from Wikipedia. Jet engine - Wikipedia
quote:
A jet engine is a reaction engine that discharges a fast moving jet of fluid to generate thrust in accordance with Newton's laws of motion. This broad definition of jet engines includes turbojets, turbofans, rockets, ramjets, pulse jets and pump-jets. In general, most jet engines are internal combustion engines[1] but non-combusting forms also exist.
No turboprop listed.
Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 72 by Cedre, posted 09-25-2009 4:27 AM | | Cedre has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 117 by Cedre, posted 09-25-2009 11:29 AM | | Theodoric has replied |
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Theodoric
Member Posts: 9197 From: Northwest, WI, USA Joined: 08-15-2005 Member Rating: 3.2
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Message 118 of 297 (525987)
09-25-2009 11:50 AM
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Reply to: Message 117 by Cedre
09-25-2009 11:29 AM
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Re: Jets or not Jets
No it is not common. It is extremely uncommon. Do you realize your Time article is from 1965. Damn hell of a long way to go back to get support. Do you really think an average person would look at a turbo prop and call it a jet?
Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 117 by Cedre, posted 09-25-2009 11:29 AM | | Cedre has not replied |
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Theodoric
Member Posts: 9197 From: Northwest, WI, USA Joined: 08-15-2005 Member Rating: 3.2
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Re: Jets or not Jets
I disagree. Personal jet brings up visions of a leer or such.
Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts
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Theodoric
Member Posts: 9197 From: Northwest, WI, USA Joined: 08-15-2005 Member Rating: 3.2
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Message 121 of 297 (525996)
09-25-2009 12:13 PM
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Reply to: Message 117 by Cedre
09-25-2009 11:29 AM
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Re: Jets or not Jets
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 117 by Cedre, posted 09-25-2009 11:29 AM | | Cedre has not replied |
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Theodoric
Member Posts: 9197 From: Northwest, WI, USA Joined: 08-15-2005 Member Rating: 3.2
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Re: Jets or not Jets
I am attempting to show that Cedre will say anything to make the prophecy work. It does not matter actually what the charlatan said. Cedre is making more and more outlandish statements on this one issue in order to make the prophecy fit. I grant to you that is is incidental to the whole prophecy, but instead of just saying that, Cedre wants to go out on a limb and make claims about a turbo prop being commonly referred to as a jet. He could have very easily have looked at the video like you and I have and come to the same conclusion. Instead every word is integral to the prophecy in his own mind. That is why it has become important to him to draw this line in the sand. I have solely been trying to show that he is willing to use various mental gymnastics in order to make the prophecy fit any reality.
Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts
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