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Author Topic:   Now I know that Alfred Wegener`s theory is wrong!
edge
Member (Idle past 1706 days)
Posts: 4696
From: Colorado, USA
Joined: 01-09-2002


Message 76 of 152 (529770)
10-10-2009 12:19 PM
Reply to: Message 75 by Aspevik
10-10-2009 12:10 PM


Re: An Initial Question
Yes, I see nothing to disagree with. However, your intepretation of them is invalid with respect to this discussion. You can answer my points now.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 75 by Aspevik, posted 10-10-2009 12:10 PM Aspevik has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 79 by Aspevik, posted 10-10-2009 1:57 PM edge has replied

  
roxrkool
Member (Idle past 989 days)
Posts: 1497
From: Nevada
Joined: 03-23-2003


Message 77 of 152 (529777)
10-10-2009 1:00 PM
Reply to: Message 69 by Aspevik
10-10-2009 5:22 AM


Re: An Initial Question
The two processes, gravitational differentiation and chemical fractionation, work in tandem -- lighterweight minerals with oxygen and silicon rise to the surface to form the crust and upper mantle, whereas the heavier minerals and the substances which do not bond with silicon or oxygen (such as gold, platinum, and others, including heavy radioactive heat sources) mostly sink to the core. Then chemical fractionation further occurs among the localized materials.
This is a very simplistic description of what has happened to the earth. The earth's interior is differentiated based on chemistry and density as a result of cooling and fractionation. But the earth is a dynamic system and mantle processes did not stop or cool entirely, unlike smaller planets. Therefore mixing and interaction between the various horizons within the earth's interior and surface has occurred in the past and continues to occur today (e.g., hot spots).
The core may have a substantial quantity of gold (and other metals), that's certainly plausible. The mantle has less, though it may replenish itself from the core, but there is little evidence that it exists in liquid form -- as in molten liquid gold -- within the mantle.
There is the gold liquid. And if a meteor hit the earth and went into the mantle, this new mass would have pressed upp the liquid mass as metals and so on.
This liquid mass will find the easiest way away from the pessure this meteor makes and that would be the cracks this meteor makes on the way into the mantle.
So you're saying that these fractures, resulting from the impact, extend all the way from the surface of the earth down 2500+ km to the outer core?
And that liquid gold migrated up these fractures, unimpinged, through the mantle -- sometimes up to the crust? What about all the other metals?
I'm having a hard time believing such a massive impact wouldn't just have destroyed the earth.
When was this supposed to have happened?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 69 by Aspevik, posted 10-10-2009 5:22 AM Aspevik has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 81 by Aspevik, posted 10-10-2009 2:38 PM roxrkool has replied

  
roxrkool
Member (Idle past 989 days)
Posts: 1497
From: Nevada
Joined: 03-23-2003


Message 78 of 152 (529781)
10-10-2009 1:42 PM
Reply to: Message 72 by Aspevik
10-10-2009 11:35 AM


Re: An Initial Question
Nobody is discounting the likelihood of a substantial amount of gold and other precious metals in the earth's core.
So I think I have coverage for my claims here about the gold on my site here: http://www.aspevik.net/extra.htm
Aspevik, are you are still claiming those deposits as the largest gold fields in the world? With the exception of Tarkwa and the Wit deposits, the rest should be removed.
You are basically picking and choosing which deposits to present on your map based on their proximity to your alleged impact site. Not whether they are in fact the largest gold mines in the world. And why are you not depicting the largest platinum mines, or copper mines, or other metallic mines? Why just gold?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 72 by Aspevik, posted 10-10-2009 11:35 AM Aspevik has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 80 by Aspevik, posted 10-10-2009 2:16 PM roxrkool has not replied
 Message 82 by petrophysics1, posted 10-10-2009 3:58 PM roxrkool has replied

  
Aspevik
Member (Idle past 5222 days)
Posts: 66
Joined: 09-28-2009


Message 79 of 152 (529784)
10-10-2009 1:57 PM
Reply to: Message 76 by edge
10-10-2009 12:19 PM


Re: An Initial Question
Yes, I see nothing to disagree with. However, your intepretation of them is invalid with respect to this discussion. You can answer my points now.
Yes, I see nothing to disagree with. However, your intepretation of them is invalid with respect to this discussion. You can answer my points now.
Thank you, and I would try to answer your point now. :-)
First of all, now you are talking about the core of the earth when before it was the mantle. The article says nothing about gold accumulations in the mantle.
There are two different mantles: Outer and inner mantle. The inner mantle consists of liquid rock mass. It is more liquid the closer the core is located. I told you that gold are so heavy that it sink into the middle of the Earth. Maybe I use the wrong word, and I am sorry for that, but I mean the core.
That dosen`t matter because my pont was that a meter huit the surfase and went into the Earth, maybe not into the core but close to so the gold in the core was pressed out the easiest way out and thats the way the metor went into the Earth. When the gold was pressed up to the surface, I mean this and another minerals from the deep filled up some of the cracks this metorite made when it hit the crust.
Second, you article explains one possible reason why there is still gold in the crust and it has nothing to do with liquid gold spurting up through the mantle and into the crust.
No, these articles tells us that we have a lot of gold inside the middle of the Earth. And it is realy hot there and therefore is the gold liquid too. This metal are so heavy that if we find this metal in veins here in the on the surfase, this veins most have been created one way or another. And there most have been a reason to that the gold ended into this veins too.
I think you understand what I mean to say, but I also think you only want to argue against everything I say here, of principle.
You don`t like new ideas at all and you belive that you have learned evertything you need at the University you went on. That isn`t sciense at all. Sciense demands that we are open to new ideas, curious and investigative. Nobody likes changes, but without changes we will not make progress either.
It does not help to insist on school lessons, and dismiss any new ideas just because we think we know everything about geology and don`t need to listen to new ideas.
As you can see at : my Web Site , I had only moved Gondwanaland and I detected that the most part of the gold fields in the world came at the same area in the world, in stead of spread all over the world like they are today. Just the same happend to the fossils from the Ediacara perioid.
I have studied this fossils from this periode and up to the end of trias/jura period, and I can only find any pattern at this Ediacara fosils. Both of these findings have the same senter, therefore I belive a meteor hit the surface at that time. A lot of carbon in rocks from the Ediacara period makes my suspicion stronger.
There are more. Africa and the whole Eurasia are moving the same direction today as I have told in my theory the last 20 years. The scientist have used GPS to determine this. Here is a picture I have from this page (Norwegian, sorry): Forbruksln - Billig Ln Med Geoportalen.no
This is the same direction i have here:

This message is a reply to:
 Message 76 by edge, posted 10-10-2009 12:19 PM edge has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 84 by edge, posted 10-10-2009 5:21 PM Aspevik has not replied

  
Aspevik
Member (Idle past 5222 days)
Posts: 66
Joined: 09-28-2009


Message 80 of 152 (529787)
10-10-2009 2:16 PM
Reply to: Message 78 by roxrkool
10-10-2009 1:42 PM


Re: An Initial Question
Aspevik, are you are still claiming those deposits as the largest gold fields in the world? With the exception of Tarkwa and the Wit deposits, the rest should be removed.
You are basically picking and choosing which deposits to present on your map based on their proximity to your alleged impact site. Not whether they are in fact the largest gold mines in the world. And why are you not depicting the largest platinum mines, or copper mines, or other metallic mines? Why just gold?.
I have not put as much emphasis on the minerals on my website at all, I just mentioned this because I was asked about it and I make a map where i took some of the largest gold fields on Earth just to illustrate my point here. And i write "some" and not "all" the large gold fields too. If we took the rest of them that would`t change anything anyway.
Most of the largest gold fiels would lay at this side on Earth anyway in stead of spread over the world like we have today. But I feel you prefer the holes in the cheese instead of the cheese and you are not interested to see any points at all. I am sorry if I take wrong now, but it look like that to me.
I have made maps on metal deposits over North and South-America to show the amasing likeness between these continents to, but I never put them into my web, because I don`t have my maps here at my home. Therefore I asked about this earlier, so I could make a new map to you. The coal resources match perfect on both continents, and the make a perfect belt over both sides of these continents.
But as I told, I don`t have the map here now.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 78 by roxrkool, posted 10-10-2009 1:42 PM roxrkool has not replied

  
Aspevik
Member (Idle past 5222 days)
Posts: 66
Joined: 09-28-2009


Message 81 of 152 (529793)
10-10-2009 2:38 PM
Reply to: Message 77 by roxrkool
10-10-2009 1:00 PM


Re: An Initial Question
So you're saying that these fractures, resulting from the impact, extend all the way from the surface of the earth down 2500+ km to the outer core?
And that liquid gold migrated up these fractures, unimpinged, through the mantle -- sometimes up to the crust? What about all the other metals?
I'm having a hard time believing such a massive impact wouldn't just have destroyed the earth.
When was this supposed to have happened?.
I have already anwered this question over here, but I can tell yoy something else. When Alfred Wegener write about the teori in 1915, the cientists told him there is no force in the Earth who is strong enough to move those heavy landplates. But a meteorite is strong enough if this breake up the landmass and get into the Earth and melt there.
I know it is hard to belive that a massive impact wouldn't just have destroyed the Earth, but after this impact in the Ediacara periode (between 635 and 542 million years ago) this animals died out of some reason and I don`t know an answer to that question at all.
If we study the rocks from this time, we know there have been unusual amount of carbon at the Earth at this time. What else than a meteor can make so mutch corbon in the air? Cars? ;-)

This message is a reply to:
 Message 77 by roxrkool, posted 10-10-2009 1:00 PM roxrkool has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 85 by roxrkool, posted 10-10-2009 6:03 PM Aspevik has not replied

  
petrophysics1
Inactive Member


(1)
Message 82 of 152 (529800)
10-10-2009 3:58 PM
Reply to: Message 78 by roxrkool
10-10-2009 1:42 PM


Re: An Initial Question
You are basically picking and choosing which deposits to present on your map based on their proximity to your alleged impact site. Not whether they are in fact the largest gold mines in the world. And why are you not depicting the largest platinum mines, or copper mines, or other metallic mines? Why just gold?
I agree with this, let's have a look at some worldwide maps of primary gold occurences for precambrian, paleozoic, mesazoic, and cenezoic rocks.
Minelinks.com
Minelinks.com
Minelinks.com
Minelinks.com
Boy did he leave out a lot to make it match his "theory".
Not only that but his concept of veins make from liquid gold is wierd. I don't think he has ever seen any ore veins, and I've never seen that anywhere. This doesn't match any gold deposits I've looked at, including near Kirkland Lake, Ont.,Sudbury,Ont., north of Lac La Ronge, in the Black Hills, in Colorado near Boulder, Central City, Idaho Springs, Georgetown, Cripple Creek(a gold telluride ore), Creed, Ouray, Silverton, Telluride and the Carlin gold deposits in Nevada.
Here is a quick paper on the Carlin and Wit gold deposits. Quite a bit has been done since 2006 and my wife wrote a paper and presented a talk on the Carlin type gold deposits for her graduate seminar in ore deposits, they identified three periods of mineralization and enrichment.Sorry I haven't looked at more gold deposits but spent the last 35 as a petroleum exploration geologist, mineral deposits are a hobby.
Geotimes - April 2006 - The Rush to Uncover Gold‘s Origins
This plate tectonics model also doesn't match the paleogeography we see from actually measuring sections, mapping formations, dating the rocks.
Here is a good site you can track the rocks/paleogeography of various ages over North America or worldwide:
http://jan.ucc.nau.edu/~rcb7/regionaltext.html
I've found it to be rather accurate when comparing it to work I've done exploring for oil and gas deposits in many basins.
Rox, I know you know about this and decided to post to you instead of wasting my time trying to give someone a graduate degree for free.
Thought some here might check the links out and learn something.
Edited by petrophysics1, : added a link I forgot

This message is a reply to:
 Message 78 by roxrkool, posted 10-10-2009 1:42 PM roxrkool has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 83 by roxrkool, posted 10-10-2009 5:19 PM petrophysics1 has not replied
 Message 86 by Aspevik, posted 10-10-2009 6:28 PM petrophysics1 has not replied

  
roxrkool
Member (Idle past 989 days)
Posts: 1497
From: Nevada
Joined: 03-23-2003


Message 83 of 152 (529808)
10-10-2009 5:19 PM
Reply to: Message 82 by petrophysics1
10-10-2009 3:58 PM


Re: An Initial Question
Great images, p! I had been trying to find similar images, but just haven't had the time to invest in the search. And silly me, I ignored that website because it's primarily interested in placer deposits.
I've been confused about Aspevik's gold veins as well. No one has been able to pin him down on whether he thinks gold only occurs as veins on the surface of the earth or whether those veins eventually are eroded or re-mobilized in the subsurface by intrusions and then ultimately deposited as secondary deposits, for example as VMS, metamorphic, sedimentary, intrusion-related, which normally are primary deposits.
Just like the oil and gas industry, the minerals industry also uses the mainstream tectonic and paleogeographic models (thanks for the link!) to explore for mineral deposits. Edge can confirm. It's not just a matter of looking for the right rocks, we're looking for the right depositional environments, tectonic settings, metallogenic provinces, etc. and they change depending on the time period. Heck even the types of ore deposits change over time. As you know, it's a fairly involved and complicated system of research, but it works very well.
Edited by roxrkool, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 82 by petrophysics1, posted 10-10-2009 3:58 PM petrophysics1 has not replied

  
edge
Member (Idle past 1706 days)
Posts: 4696
From: Colorado, USA
Joined: 01-09-2002


Message 84 of 152 (529809)
10-10-2009 5:21 PM
Reply to: Message 79 by Aspevik
10-10-2009 1:57 PM


Re: An Initial Question
That dosen`t matter because my pont was that a meter huit the surfase and went into the Earth, maybe not into the core but close to so the gold in the core was pressed out the easiest way out and thats the way the metor went into the Earth. When the gold was pressed up to the surface, I mean this and another minerals from the deep filled up some of the cracks this metorite made when it hit the crust.
Hmmm, it is hard to imagine an impact this large in Ediacaran time that would not leave a substantial mark on the earth, particularly if it could cause gold veins to occur 500 million years later. I am curious as to why we do not see more therm metamorphic effects around gold veins, not to mention shock features in Ediacaran rocks.
Second, you article explains one possible reason why there is still gold in the crust and it has nothing to do with liquid gold spurting up through the mantle and into the crust.
Exactly my point.
No, these articles tells us that we have a lot of gold inside the middle of the Earth. And it is realy hot there and therefore is the gold liquid too. This metal are so heavy that if we find this metal in veins here in the on the surfase, this veins most have been created one way or another. And there most have been a reason to that the gold ended into this veins too.
I don't suppose you'd consider geochemical transport (for which there is ample evidence, by the way), would you?
I think you understand what I mean to say, but I also think you only want to argue against everything I say here, of principle.
Like many YECs, not to say that you are one, you know enough dicsonnected facts that you can build a wishful story around them and think you have solved some mystery, or found some weakness in mainstream theory.
ou don`t like new ideas at all and you belive that you have learned evertything you need at the University you went on. That isn`t sciense at all. Sciense demands that we are open to new ideas, curious and investigative. Nobody likes changes, but without changes we will not make progress either. It does not help to insist on school lessons, and dismiss any new ideas just because we think we know everything about geology and don`t need to listen to new ideas.
Wrong. I love change. I thrive on change. However, new ideas have to honor the facts that I know. All of them. Your ideas do not do that. YOu cannot go carelessly tossing continents about and expect anyone to listen to you. You have gotten a pretty fair hearing here and I think it is time to go back to your drawing board.
As you can see at : my Web Site , I had only moved Gondwanaland and I detected that the most part of the gold fields in the world came at the same area in the world, in stead of spread all over the world like they are today. Just the same happend to the fossils from the Ediacara perioid.
Except that they don't occur on the same part of the world, even on your map.
And no. You didn't 'just move gondwana', you tranlated Africa 180 degreses and moved to a point east of Japan. And you have provided no evidence for this.
There are more. Africa and the whole Eurasia are moving the same direction today as I have told in my theory the last 20 years. The scientist have used GPS to determine this. Here is a picture I have from this page (Norwegian, sorry): Forbruksln - Billig Ln Med Geoportalen.no
No, Helge, read closely. They are moving in the same direction at different rates. That means in relative terms Africa is colliding with Europe in the Mediterranean Sea area.
Having said that, I cannot determine what all of these motions are relative to. Usually, in paleogeographic reconstructions, one plate is considered stable and the only motions we can resolve are relative to it. So, I am skeptical of this dynamic interpretation. Maybe there is an explanation in the text, but I don't have time to translate.
And no. I do not see the directions that you show on this diagram.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 79 by Aspevik, posted 10-10-2009 1:57 PM Aspevik has not replied

  
roxrkool
Member (Idle past 989 days)
Posts: 1497
From: Nevada
Joined: 03-23-2003


Message 85 of 152 (529820)
10-10-2009 6:03 PM
Reply to: Message 81 by Aspevik
10-10-2009 2:38 PM


Re: An Initial Question
I have already anwered this question over here, but I can tell yoy something else. When Alfred Wegener write about the teori in 1915, the cientists told him there is no force in the Earth who is strong enough to move those heavy landplates. But a meteorite is strong enough if this breake up the landmass and get into the Earth and melt there.
Yes, but that was before the advent of plate tectonic theory.
We know that impacts can cause partial melting and some result in substantial metals concentrations (e.g., Sudbury, Bushveld(?)), but these are typically fairly localized effects. As far as I know even the effects of the Vredefort impact structure, the largest and second oldest (at 2+ billion years -- and older than yours!) known impact structure in the world, don't extend far beyond the Wit basin or the tip of South Africa. Unless you know differently...
There is also some indication that the shock wave of an extremely powerful bolide impacts may result in an antipodal effect, such as volcanic activity.
Edited by roxrkool, : No reason given.
Edited by roxrkool, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 81 by Aspevik, posted 10-10-2009 2:38 PM Aspevik has not replied

  
Aspevik
Member (Idle past 5222 days)
Posts: 66
Joined: 09-28-2009


Message 86 of 152 (529829)
10-10-2009 6:28 PM
Reply to: Message 82 by petrophysics1
10-10-2009 3:58 PM


Re: An Initial Question
Boy did he leave out a lot to make it match his "theory".
I see I have missed some goldfiels, inside and outside the marked area I made on my map. ;-) The wasn`t mentioned in these webside I linked to. Sorry about that!
But I think I can explain the map called "Map of Cenozoic primary gold deposits" at this adress: Minelinks.com
First I have to precise the time I belive this meteor hit the surface. The Ediacara fauna started about 600 million years ago and it looks like the animals died + - 542 millions ago then cambrium started.
I have told it was then the metorite hit the seafloor.
After this hit the fields marked with grey under here came up to the surface as a result of this hit and the new mass transported gold from the deeper mass of the Earth. The mass of lava and some gold came up and added to the continents marked with grey.
When I see this map, I think I understand why it become landmass from "Spain" to "india" and I think I can explain the areas of gold too.
This hit, in Cenozoic who also started 542 millions ago when these animals died, pressed the new mass up under the continent(today Aurasia) and the mass came up at the end or edge of this plate, at the same time the other grey areas came up.
Something most have pushed upp this new landmass, and I am sure it was this hit north of Canada who did this changes.
I took this map and put the continets togheter as I had done before, and I THIS IS NOT AN ACCURATE MODEL OF THE CONTINENTS AT THIS TIME! It is just a indication how I think this happend.
http://www.aspevik.net/extra.htm
On this map I have tried to mark out the directions of the areas where the new landmass (and gold deposits) to Explain where I belive this hit most have occurred. And I have still most of the goldfield on one side of the Earth even there is some fields in the area south in Aurasia if I use this name to point at this field.
Edited by Aspevik, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 82 by petrophysics1, posted 10-10-2009 3:58 PM petrophysics1 has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 87 by edge, posted 10-10-2009 7:12 PM Aspevik has replied
 Message 88 by roxrkool, posted 10-10-2009 7:17 PM Aspevik has not replied

  
edge
Member (Idle past 1706 days)
Posts: 4696
From: Colorado, USA
Joined: 01-09-2002


Message 87 of 152 (529837)
10-10-2009 7:12 PM
Reply to: Message 86 by Aspevik
10-10-2009 6:28 PM


Re: An Initial Question
This hit, in Cenozoic who also started 542 millions ago when these animals died, pressed the new mass up under the continent(today Aurasia) and the mass came up at the end or edge of this plate, at the same time the other grey areas came up.
So now you are not just moving Gondwana, but you are moving the Cenozoic back in time by half a billion years. Interesting.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 86 by Aspevik, posted 10-10-2009 6:28 PM Aspevik has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 89 by Aspevik, posted 10-10-2009 7:32 PM edge has not replied
 Message 93 by petrophysics1, posted 10-10-2009 9:54 PM edge has not replied

  
roxrkool
Member (Idle past 989 days)
Posts: 1497
From: Nevada
Joined: 03-23-2003


Message 88 of 152 (529838)
10-10-2009 7:17 PM
Reply to: Message 86 by Aspevik
10-10-2009 6:28 PM


Re: An Initial Question
I see I have missed some goldfiels, inside and outside the marked area I made on my map. ;-) The wasn`t mentioned in these webside I linked to. Sorry about that!
That's what I have been telling you for several posts now. You've been plotting active mines (and prospects - Peru) operated by COMPANY called Gold Fields Limited, not the largest gold mines in the world.
But I think I can explain the map called "Map of Cenozoic primary gold deposits" at this adress: Minelinks.com
Again, you are choosing the deposits that fit your model.
Why not choose the Precambrian or the Paleozoic deposits since those fit your time frame better? Because those don't fit your model??? The Cenozoic didn't start until 65 Ma. Additionally, the shape of the continents today is not at all representative of the shape of the continents during the Precambrian.
Edited by roxrkool, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 86 by Aspevik, posted 10-10-2009 6:28 PM Aspevik has not replied

  
Aspevik
Member (Idle past 5222 days)
Posts: 66
Joined: 09-28-2009


Message 89 of 152 (529842)
10-10-2009 7:32 PM
Reply to: Message 87 by edge
10-10-2009 7:12 PM


Re: An Initial Question
So now you are not just moving Gondwana, but you are moving the Cenozoic back in time by half a billion years. Interesting.
Yes, now I see a big mistake here... :-), I was tired and mix toghether the whole thing. Sorry about that. I would take a better look at this in the morning, now it is night over here....

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 Message 87 by edge, posted 10-10-2009 7:12 PM edge has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 90 by Aspevik, posted 10-10-2009 7:52 PM Aspevik has not replied

  
Aspevik
Member (Idle past 5222 days)
Posts: 66
Joined: 09-28-2009


Message 90 of 152 (529847)
10-10-2009 7:52 PM
Reply to: Message 89 by Aspevik
10-10-2009 7:32 PM


Re: An Initial Question
I can see now that I couldn`t use goldmines as an indicator to the theory. I didn`t have this on my page either, but since someone brougt it up I tried to answer the best I could, and I realize I took wrong about the gold here. But.... If any meteorite hit the Earth and it took 200 my before new continents was formed as a result of this hit, it would have been perfect to this map. Or if the scientist have missed with the dating method. ;-)
I give up this gold stuff! ;-)
Edited by Aspevik, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 89 by Aspevik, posted 10-10-2009 7:32 PM Aspevik has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 91 by roxrkool, posted 10-10-2009 8:05 PM Aspevik has replied

  
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