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Author Topic:   Questions about the living cell
DevilsAdvocate
Member (Idle past 1486 days)
Posts: 1548
Joined: 06-05-2008


Message 126 of 182 (528190)
10-05-2009 5:29 AM
Reply to: Message 125 by caffeine
10-05-2009 4:55 AM


Re: Pentagrams and pentagons
Here are some natural pentegrams:

People believe what they want to believe. It is called pareidolia. Look it up.


"You can't convince a believer of anything; for their belief is not based on evidence, it's based on a deep seated need to believe." - Carl Sagan

"It is far better to grasp the Universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring." - Carl Sagan, The Demon-Haunted World


This message is a reply to:
 Message 125 by caffeine, posted 10-05-2009 4:55 AM caffeine has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 129 by Calypsis4, posted 10-08-2009 10:13 AM DevilsAdvocate has responded

  
DevilsAdvocate
Member (Idle past 1486 days)
Posts: 1548
Joined: 06-05-2008


(3)
Message 130 of 182 (529143)
10-08-2009 12:30 PM
Reply to: Message 129 by Calypsis4
10-08-2009 10:13 AM


Re: Pentagrams and pentagons
And where do you see God saying in this scripture that the sign of a cross (which by the way is a instrument of torture and death used by several civilizations in antiquity) is what holds cells together?

Colossians 1:15-18 writes:

He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation. For by Him all things were created that are in heaven and that are on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or principalities or powers. All things were created through Him and for Him. And He is before all things, and in Him all things consist. And He is the head of the body, the church, who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead, that in all things He may have the preeminence.

It says that God not the cross is what holds everything together.

This is not an extrapolation of scripture. It is an outright fabrication. God even condemns those who add to or take away from his word.

Revelations 22:18-19 writes:

If anyone adds to these things, God will add to him the plagues that are written in this book; and if anyone takes away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part from the Book of Life, from the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.

Edited by DevilsAdvocate, : No reason given.


"You can't convince a believer of anything; for their belief is not based on evidence, it's based on a deep seated need to believe." - Carl Sagan

"It is far better to grasp the Universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring." - Carl Sagan, The Demon-Haunted World


This message is a reply to:
 Message 129 by Calypsis4, posted 10-08-2009 10:13 AM Calypsis4 has not yet responded

  
DevilsAdvocate
Member (Idle past 1486 days)
Posts: 1548
Joined: 06-05-2008


(2)
Message 134 of 182 (529151)
10-08-2009 12:49 PM
Reply to: Message 129 by Calypsis4
10-08-2009 10:13 AM


Re: Pentagrams and pentagons
Here are some pictures of the protein laminan that should dispel this laminin=cross=God myth.

laminin-10 in colon cancer metastasis

Electron microscopic structure of agrin and mapping of its binding site in laminin-1 (which is the journal articlewhere the original pic of laminin = cross came from)

Protein complex (nidogen-laminin) obtained by experimental procedure X-ray (left picture) and predicted with Molfit (right picture).

Only to the scientific illterate and pseudoscientific inclined can you derive that lamininun is a religious icon.


"You can't convince a believer of anything; for their belief is not based on evidence, it's based on a deep seated need to believe." - Carl Sagan

"It is far better to grasp the Universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring." - Carl Sagan, The Demon-Haunted World


This message is a reply to:
 Message 129 by Calypsis4, posted 10-08-2009 10:13 AM Calypsis4 has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 136 by Calypsis4, posted 10-08-2009 1:14 PM DevilsAdvocate has responded

  
DevilsAdvocate
Member (Idle past 1486 days)
Posts: 1548
Joined: 06-05-2008


(2)
Message 152 of 182 (529261)
10-08-2009 5:49 PM
Reply to: Message 136 by Calypsis4
10-08-2009 1:14 PM


Re: Pentagrams and pentagons
Calypsis writes:

You can't dispel the truth. That's the way God made Laminin and when it is diagrammed it always looks like

You can diagram it any way you want but does that make it any more true?

I think the creationists own "Answer's in Genesis" says it best:

AIG writes:

While I appreciate Mr. Giglio’s passion for the Word, I would suggest that this type of argument is not a good one to use. (See God’s Pharmacy for a similar example.) The main problem with this type of argument is that it appears that something outside of Scripture (in this case, laminin) is vital to know the truthfulness of a biblical truth. Laminin is used to prove a biblical truth. However, we should never use our fallible, finite understanding of the world to judge the infallible Word of God. What we observe in the world can certainly be used to confirm God’s Word (and it does), but our finite observations are not in a position to evaluate the infinite things of God. Only if we start with the Bible as our ultimate standard can we have a worldview that is rational and makes sense of the evidence (see Atheism: An Irrational Worldview and Evolution: The Anti-science).

The structure of laminin was not made popular until 2008, yet I have no doubt that many Christians before that time have trusted the truth presented in Colossians 1:17 because it is God’s Word. Would Colossians 1:17 be any less true if laminin were not in the shape of a cross? No. If five years from now we discover that the laminin protein actually has a different shape (in fact, some electron micrographs of the protein do not resemble a cross at all, see here, p. 149), would that change the truth found in Colossians 1:17? No, because our belief in the truthfulness that Christ holds all things together should start and end with God’s Word alone!

Or are you going to argue now against your own creationist sources?


"You can't convince a believer of anything; for their belief is not based on evidence, it's based on a deep seated need to believe." - Carl Sagan

"It is far better to grasp the Universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring." - Carl Sagan, The Demon-Haunted World


This message is a reply to:
 Message 136 by Calypsis4, posted 10-08-2009 1:14 PM Calypsis4 has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 156 by Calypsis4, posted 10-09-2009 9:03 AM DevilsAdvocate has acknowledged this reply

  
DevilsAdvocate
Member (Idle past 1486 days)
Posts: 1548
Joined: 06-05-2008


Message 153 of 182 (529284)
10-08-2009 6:20 PM


Potassium channel in the shape of a swastica present in our brains.

BTW, just like the shape of the cross, the shape of the swastica is far older than that adopted by later cultures.


"You can't convince a believer of anything; for their belief is not based on evidence, it's based on a deep seated need to believe." - Carl Sagan

"It is far better to grasp the Universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring." - Carl Sagan, The Demon-Haunted World


Replies to this message:
 Message 155 by Calypsis4, posted 10-09-2009 9:02 AM DevilsAdvocate has responded

  
DevilsAdvocate
Member (Idle past 1486 days)
Posts: 1548
Joined: 06-05-2008


Message 169 of 182 (529460)
10-09-2009 12:21 PM
Reply to: Message 155 by Calypsis4
10-09-2009 9:02 AM


These looks like crosses.

but this does not look like a swastica?

Are you dillusional?


"You can't convince a believer of anything; for their belief is not based on evidence, it's based on a deep seated need to believe." - Carl Sagan

"It is far better to grasp the Universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring." - Carl Sagan, The Demon-Haunted World


This message is a reply to:
 Message 155 by Calypsis4, posted 10-09-2009 9:02 AM Calypsis4 has not yet responded

  
DevilsAdvocate
Member (Idle past 1486 days)
Posts: 1548
Joined: 06-05-2008


Message 175 of 182 (529994)
10-11-2009 4:13 PM
Reply to: Message 174 by Coyote
10-10-2009 3:06 PM


Re: Patterns in nature
My favorite pareidolia religious picture.


“One of the saddest lessons of history is this: If we've been bamboozled long enough, we tend to reject any evidence of the bamboozle. We're no longer interested in finding out the truth. The bamboozle has captured us. It is simply too painful to acknowledge -- even to ourselves -- that we've been so credulous.” - Carl Sagan, The Fine Art of Baloney Detection

"You can't convince a believer of anything; for their belief is not based on evidence, it's based on a deep seated need to believe." - Carl Sagan

"It is far better to grasp the Universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring." - Carl Sagan, The Demon-Haunted World


This message is a reply to:
 Message 174 by Coyote, posted 10-10-2009 3:06 PM Coyote has not yet responded

  
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