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Author Topic:   Questions about the living cell
Calypsis4
Member (Idle past 4453 days)
Posts: 428
Joined: 09-29-2009


Message 1 of 182 (527463)
10-01-2009 12:50 PM


Questions for evolutionists about the living cell.

1. What was the origin of the information now utilized in the transcription/translation/replication to produce protiens?

2. Since the helicase (protein) is required to open the double helix for the process mentioned above in order to produce other helicase proteins then what is the origin of the first helicase?

3. Where does nature develop chromatin outside of already existing living organisms?

I would prefer that each of you answer by stating:

1. opinion

2. fact

Thank you. This will be appreciated.


Replies to this message:
 Message 3 by subbie, posted 10-01-2009 1:41 PM Calypsis4 has replied
 Message 4 by mark24, posted 10-01-2009 3:45 PM Calypsis4 has replied
 Message 5 by Parasomnium, posted 10-01-2009 4:16 PM Calypsis4 has replied

  
Calypsis4
Member (Idle past 4453 days)
Posts: 428
Joined: 09-29-2009


Message 6 of 182 (527510)
10-01-2009 4:26 PM
Reply to: Message 3 by subbie
10-01-2009 1:41 PM


It's quite impossible to answer this question without knowing what you mean by "information." Hopefully your definition will be more helpful and less fluid than your definition of "kind."

Try the information in the DNA.

I explained the creationist defintion of kind. Why need I belabor the point? We most commonly associate 'kind' with 'family' as in kingdom; phylum;class; order; family...

I will admit we are not 'married' to the Linneaus classification system but 'family' is closest.


Click to enlarge

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 Message 3 by subbie, posted 10-01-2009 1:41 PM subbie has replied

Replies to this message:
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Calypsis4
Member (Idle past 4453 days)
Posts: 428
Joined: 09-29-2009


Message 7 of 182 (527513)
10-01-2009 4:33 PM
Reply to: Message 4 by mark24
10-01-2009 3:45 PM


Answers to questions to 1-3 are I don't know.

Can you answer them based on the same format you expect us to?

Yes, with no problem.

1. All genetic information was created by Almighty God within living organisms at creation. Nature did not develop it. Nature is incapable of developing it outside of already existing living organisms. Nature can only do what it is programed to do by the one who programed it; the Lord.

2. The machinery of nature was created 'as is' and almost none of it would function were the working parts not assembled and the power switched on by another force. Again, that is the Lord.

3. See the above. Nature doesn't create/make chromatin anywhere outside of existing DNA coded living organisms.

Have a nice day.


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Calypsis4
Member (Idle past 4453 days)
Posts: 428
Joined: 09-29-2009


Message 9 of 182 (527517)
10-01-2009 4:35 PM
Reply to: Message 5 by Parasomnium
10-01-2009 4:16 PM


Re: Some answers
Fact: the facts are not in yet, but scientists are working on it.

Thank you. That was an honest answer.

Question: So scientists are working on it; but why isn't nature doing it?


This message is a reply to:
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Calypsis4
Member (Idle past 4453 days)
Posts: 428
Joined: 09-29-2009


Message 11 of 182 (527520)
10-01-2009 4:37 PM
Reply to: Message 8 by Dr Jack
10-01-2009 4:33 PM


Re: Some answers
...we in fact find a continuum of complexity extant in living organisms.

Why?

Thank you for your response.


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Calypsis4
Member (Idle past 4453 days)
Posts: 428
Joined: 09-29-2009


Message 15 of 182 (527524)
10-01-2009 4:46 PM
Reply to: Message 10 by subbie
10-01-2009 4:36 PM


You can't use the word "information" in defining "information." Try again. What do you mean by "information" in the DNA?

ACTG or U as may be the case as it is found in DNA in such a fashion as to produce proteins essential for life.

Furthermore, what was the origin of the tiny machinery that was necessary to produce the first cells and where does/did nature make such tools/machinery?

I would kindly suggest you watch this short video clip before answering.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=41_Ne5mS2ls&feature=related

Thank you for your responses.

The problem:

Evolutionist: "I am going to make a sledge hammer"
Friend: "With what?"
Evolutionist: "With a machine that makes hammers"
Friend: "Where will you get such a machine?"
Evolutionist: "I will make one"
Friend: "With what?"
Evolutionist: "With hammers"


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Calypsis4
Member (Idle past 4453 days)
Posts: 428
Joined: 09-29-2009


Message 16 of 182 (527526)
10-01-2009 4:47 PM
Reply to: Message 14 by Dr Jack
10-01-2009 4:44 PM


Re: Some answers
Why what?

Why..."we in fact find a continuum of complexity extant in living organisms".


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Calypsis4
Member (Idle past 4453 days)
Posts: 428
Joined: 09-29-2009


Message 19 of 182 (527530)
10-01-2009 4:57 PM
Reply to: Message 12 by Parasomnium
10-01-2009 4:42 PM


Re: Facts?
That's not quite what mark24 asked. He asked you to answer in the same format you expect of us. It seems you only gave us your opinions. Can you also provide some facts?

Yes.

1. opinion God Almighty created all things.

Fact: The world/universe could not create itself because of the 1st law of thermodynamics. Matter cannot be created nor destroyed. We know of nothing in natural world that can create matter and no one has ever observed matter being created. Therefore its creation had to be supernatural.

2. opinion: the DNA helicase was created within the living cells of every organism on earth and functions (albeit imperfectly unlike at creation)in similar fashion to every other complex system on earth, both living and non-living. It was pre-programed by God.

fact: Since we cannot determine which came first, '(the chicken or the egg?)', then how many options do we have other than an intelligent Engineer? The only option is a supernatural option unless one wants to consider extraterrestrials planted the human race. However that only pushes the problem back further, it does not solve it.

3. The above answer suffices here for both opinion & answer.


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Calypsis4
Member (Idle past 4453 days)
Posts: 428
Joined: 09-29-2009


Message 25 of 182 (527541)
10-01-2009 5:29 PM
Reply to: Message 20 by cavediver
10-01-2009 5:01 PM


Here's another as one potential answer to your question:

Thanks, but I have already viewed that more than once and the author failed to explain the origin of the necessary DNA machinery nor does he explain how that machinery happened to fall into working operable order by itself.

Thanks for your reply.


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Calypsis4
Member (Idle past 4453 days)
Posts: 428
Joined: 09-29-2009


Message 26 of 182 (527543)
10-01-2009 5:30 PM
Reply to: Message 18 by Parasomnium
10-01-2009 4:50 PM


Re: Some answers
"Why isn't nature doing what?"

Never mind.


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Calypsis4
Member (Idle past 4453 days)
Posts: 428
Joined: 09-29-2009


Message 27 of 182 (527544)
10-01-2009 5:34 PM
Reply to: Message 23 by cavediver
10-01-2009 5:11 PM


Re: Facts?
Incorrect - 1LoT is simply an observation of the effect of the principles of statistical mechanics acting in a flat background space-time. They, and the 1LoT are inapplicable in the form you are implying in the region of the T=0 point in Big Bang cosmology space-time.

No. it is correct. We are talking about a firmly established law of science that tells us that matter cannot be created, at least not by any known physical force.

You cannot postulate something that you have never observed, nor is testable (the 'Big Bang') against a law that has been repeatedly tested and observed countless times and conclude that 'it isn't applicable'.
That was an arbitrary conclusion on your part and it is not justified.

Matter cannot create itself and we know of no physical process that will overturn that fact...that includes the 'Big Bang'.


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Calypsis4
Member (Idle past 4453 days)
Posts: 428
Joined: 09-29-2009


Message 33 of 182 (527553)
10-01-2009 5:59 PM
Reply to: Message 23 by cavediver
10-01-2009 5:11 PM


Re: Facts?
Incorrect - matter is being created and destroyed at every point of the Universe every moment of time

Even your evolutionist comrades should disgree with that. You are dead wrong.

Quote: (from PhysicalGeography.net)

"First Law of Thermodynamics

The first law of thermodynamics is often called the Law of Conservation of Energy. This law suggests that energy can be transferred from one system to another in many forms. Also, it can not be created or destroyed. Thus, the total amount of energy available in the Universe is constant. Einstein's famous equation (written below) describes the relationship between energy and matter:

E = mc2

In the equation above, energy (E) is equal to matter (m) times the square of a constant (c). Einstein suggested that energy and matter are interchangeable. His equation also suggests that the quantity of energy and matter in the Universe is fixed."

Matter can neither be created nor destroyed. You were poorly taught.


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Replies to this message:
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Calypsis4
Member (Idle past 4453 days)
Posts: 428
Joined: 09-29-2009


Message 34 of 182 (527554)
10-01-2009 6:00 PM
Reply to: Message 32 by cavediver
10-01-2009 5:57 PM


Re: Facts?
That is where two photons (not matter) combine to create an electron and a positron (both matter), and the reverse process where two particles of matter annihilate to give two photons (commonly referred to as matter/anti-matter annihilation)

That is a transformation and/or division, not a creation.


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Calypsis4
Member (Idle past 4453 days)
Posts: 428
Joined: 09-29-2009


Message 35 of 182 (527555)
10-01-2009 6:01 PM
Reply to: Message 31 by Parasomnium
10-01-2009 5:55 PM


Re: Facts?
Better still, you should talk about cells...

Right. How did they originate?


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Calypsis4
Member (Idle past 4453 days)
Posts: 428
Joined: 09-29-2009


Message 37 of 182 (527558)
10-01-2009 6:05 PM
Reply to: Message 24 by Parasomnium
10-01-2009 5:13 PM


Re: Some answers
Crystal clear, thank you. I couldn't have said it better.

That explains a possible process but not the origin of chromatin. What is its origin and how did it assemble into DNA to generate life?


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