Understanding through Discussion


Welcome! You are not logged in. [ Login ]
EvC Forum active members: 79 (8908 total)
Current session began: 
Page Loaded: 05-26-2019 7:28 PM
28 online now:
AZPaul3, Dr Adequate, DrJones*, dwise1, PsychMJC, ramoss (6 members, 22 visitors)
Chatting now:  Chat room empty
Newest Member: WeloTemo
Post Volume:
Total: 852,094 Year: 7,130/19,786 Month: 1,671/1,581 Week: 50/443 Day: 50/34 Hour: 1/4


Thread  Details

Email This Thread
Newer Topic | Older Topic
  
Author Topic:   Why'd you do it that way, God?
New Cat's Eye
Inactive Member


Message 106 of 137 (541793)
01-06-2010 11:21 AM
Reply to: Message 104 by Sky-Writing
01-06-2010 11:02 AM


Re: Falling came after the fall.
#1 Creation of matter and energy is impossible.
(So a "God" is needed to explain why we see matter.)

If creation of matter is impossible then God couldn't have created it and if god did create it then creation of matter is not impossible.

But really, all the energy (of which matter is a part) was present at the Big Band and it simply changed shape and size. It wasn't created ex nihilo.

#2 Everything degrades down. Nothing evolves up to more a more complex system. (Evolution "up" is impossible)

That isn't true. Simply precipitating salt crystal by evaporating the water out of a solution increases the complexity of that system.

And only closed systems must increase entropy, not "everything".

#3 The Cosmos is headed to death, not life.

We don't know that. Odds are that there's another planet out there evolving life right now.

The three laws of Thermodynamics

Those laws are about the movement of heat and are not applicable to the evolution of biological systems.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 104 by Sky-Writing, posted 01-06-2010 11:02 AM Sky-Writing has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 109 by Sky-Writing, posted 01-06-2010 2:16 PM New Cat's Eye has responded
 Message 111 by greyseal, posted 01-06-2010 2:57 PM New Cat's Eye has responded

  
New Cat's Eye
Inactive Member


Message 113 of 137 (541861)
01-06-2010 3:09 PM
Reply to: Message 109 by Sky-Writing
01-06-2010 2:16 PM


Re: Falling came after the fall.
You don't seem to have any intention of learning anything but are just out to have some fun, no?


If creation of matter is impossible then God couldn't have created it and if god did create it then creation of matter is not impossible.

I didn't say the creation of matter and energy was impossible, Science said that.

But really, all the energy (of which matter is a part) was present at the Big Band and it simply changed shape and size. It wasn't created ex nihilo.

I don't know who this "But Really" is or where he publishes.

Are you conceding the point that god is needed to explain why we see matter?

With one room of vapor, and one a vacuum with a crystal of salt in it, the second has far less energy, and infinite less complexity.

Assuming you're correct, if I take that vacuum with a crystal of salt in it and then vaporize it, I would have increased the complexity. So there's your increase in complexity that you said was impossible.

And you know what, I would have had to input energy into that system, which would mean its no longer closed.

And only closed systems must increase entropy, not "everything".

I don't know that particular law.

Its called The Second Law of Thermodymanics.

Energy is energy by any name.

You don't have a clue what you're talking about, do you?

Could you define the word "energy" for me please?

You aren't talking about an amount of work, are you?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 109 by Sky-Writing, posted 01-06-2010 2:16 PM Sky-Writing has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 116 by Sky-Writing, posted 01-06-2010 3:24 PM New Cat's Eye has responded
 Message 121 by Sky-Writing, posted 01-06-2010 5:17 PM New Cat's Eye has responded

  
New Cat's Eye
Inactive Member


Message 115 of 137 (541865)
01-06-2010 3:14 PM
Reply to: Message 111 by greyseal
01-06-2010 2:57 PM


Re: Falling came after the fall.
Catholic, I take it you're actually religious, but I applaud you for your sensibilities in the face of glaring, boiling ignorance.

I'm not that religious...

My sensibility flies right out the window when they show that they don't care to learn anything, but would rather be combative. Then I proceed to tell them to go ahead and fuck right off.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 111 by greyseal, posted 01-06-2010 2:57 PM greyseal has not yet responded

  
New Cat's Eye
Inactive Member


Message 117 of 137 (541870)
01-06-2010 3:33 PM
Reply to: Message 116 by Sky-Writing
01-06-2010 3:24 PM


Re: Falling came after the fall.
Are you conceding the point that god is needed to explain why we see matter?

See, we do agree, since that was my original point.

My bad... I left the word NOT out of there. I meant: "Are you conceding the point that god is NOT needed to explain why we see matter?

But apparently you think the other way.

Science says no matter or energy can be created or destroyed.
So there is no "natural" laws to allow for matter to exist.

Um, no scienctific laws prevent matter from existing.

There was never a point in time in the Universe where the 'energy' did not exist. And there is no point in time before the Big Bang so no need to go there.

So there must have been a Creator that is outside of these laws.

This conclusion is based on false premises that the first law of thermodynamics prevents matter from existing without outside intervention.

Which is actually a hilarious position because it requires all those scientists to be complete fools in not noticing that in the first place. And yet, they put a man on the moon.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 116 by Sky-Writing, posted 01-06-2010 3:24 PM Sky-Writing has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 119 by Sky-Writing, posted 01-06-2010 5:07 PM New Cat's Eye has responded

  
New Cat's Eye
Inactive Member


(1)
Message 120 of 137 (541888)
01-06-2010 5:14 PM
Reply to: Message 119 by Sky-Writing
01-06-2010 5:07 PM


Re: Falling came after the fall.
There was never a point in time in the Universe where the 'energy' did not exist.

I'm not versed in that Religion. I admire your faith.

You don't seem to know very much about science at all, even so far as to misunderstand its entire modus operandi to having anything to do with faith at all.

Take this one for example:

According to Sciences Third law of thermodynamics the normal state of the universe is zero energy. Zero matter.

Swing... and a miss.

at least read the wiki page on it, geez.

But alas, we're no longer even talking about the topic of this thread and you've shown that you have no intention of trying to learn anything but would rather jsut have pointless arguments so:

Fuck off, and enjoy wallowing in your ignorance.

/*tips hat


This message is a reply to:
 Message 119 by Sky-Writing, posted 01-06-2010 5:07 PM Sky-Writing has not yet responded

  
New Cat's Eye
Inactive Member


Message 122 of 137 (541890)
01-06-2010 5:19 PM
Reply to: Message 121 by Sky-Writing
01-06-2010 5:17 PM


Re: Falling came after the fall.
So there's your increase in complexity that you said was impossible.

I said "not natural."
With God all things are possible.

So when salt is vaporized, god is doing it!?

You sir, are an idiot.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 121 by Sky-Writing, posted 01-06-2010 5:17 PM Sky-Writing has not yet responded

  
Newer Topic | Older Topic
Jump to:


Copyright 2001-2018 by EvC Forum, All Rights Reserved

™ Version 4.0 Beta
Innovative software from Qwixotic © 2019