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Author Topic:   What Benefits Are Only Available Through God?
Thugpreacha
Member
Posts: 13365
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 21 of 430 (531666)
10-19-2009 10:00 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by Stile
10-06-2009 9:53 AM


Why Not God?
Stile writes:

I am not an atheist because I have something against religion, I am an atheist because I have no reason to be otherwise.

That's funny. I am a believer because I have no reason to be otherwise.

Stile writes:

There were many positive things. A sense of community, a sense of peace, a time for reflection and forethought.

You mention God, but never seem to have even pretended to have a relationship with Him. Or am I premature.....
Stile writes:

Is there something that is worth obtaining through God that can only be obtained through religion (or God) that I don't have already?

Good question. I never hear an audible voice, but I find no problem with my irrational belief that God exists and seeks communion with me. Personally, I think He expects me to mature and get deeper on my own, rather than impress me with proof of His existence. And thinking about what you said, I think that what you have is freely given and is yours already, whether you acknowledge Him or not. Which leads to the question of why you would ignore Him...(is a prayer that silly?)

Stile writes:

If you are unable to support your position, but you'd still like to answer... please do. But please indicate that you are unable to verify that what you're saying is actually a part of reality. Unverifiable experiences, ideas, and thoughts are still very important and beneficial in their own way. Acknowledging them as such will allow us to skip the quibbling over their actual veracity and focus on discussing their potential merit.

OK, I will freely admit that I cannot prove Him. (at least to others) Next question?

Edited by Phat, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by Stile, posted 10-06-2009 9:53 AM Stile has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 22 by Stile, posted 10-19-2009 12:01 PM Thugpreacha has responded

  
Thugpreacha
Member
Posts: 13365
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 23 of 430 (531923)
10-20-2009 2:02 PM
Reply to: Message 22 by Stile
10-19-2009 12:01 PM


Re: Why Not God?
Stile writes:

I may have had a relationship with God, and now have found better sources for spiritual requirements.

Define better.

Stile writes:

I'm not really worried about whether or not God exists. I'm more concerned with where I am in life now, and if there's anything I'm missing. If you believe that a relationship with God would provide something that cannot be obtained otherwise, please feel free to attempt a description of such a thing.

If I believe that God (even as a hypothetical concept) is greater, wiser, and smarter than I am, that type of relationship would most certainly provide me that which cannot be obtained otherwise. So I guess I am admitting that I need the relationship for selfish reasons. Kinda like hanging out with a Rich Uncle.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 22 by Stile, posted 10-19-2009 12:01 PM Stile has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 24 by Stile, posted 10-20-2009 3:08 PM Thugpreacha has responded

  
Thugpreacha
Member
Posts: 13365
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 25 of 430 (797152)
01-13-2017 2:49 AM
Reply to: Message 24 by Stile
10-20-2009 3:08 PM


Re: Facts vs. Possibilities
stile writes:

I'm not really worried about whether or not God exists. I'm more concerned with where I am in life now, and if there's anything I'm missing. If you believe that a relationship with God would provide something that cannot be obtained otherwise, please feel free to attempt a description of such a thing. So far, no one is able to identify anything that is unattainable without God anyway.

That is, I'm not calling any relationships with God useless. I'm only saying that a relationship with God is not necessary for me (and likely others) to have a level of spiritualism that is equal to or surpassing the level of spiritualism that comes from a relationship with God.


I have taken some time to reread what you have written on this topic, in addition to our discussion at Do We NEED God? I appreciate your honesty at being willing to accept something that you may be missing in your personal quest for self-actualization, adequate acknowledgment of such a Deity should One happen to exist (for the benefit of your family as well as yourself) and your willingness to engage in such dialogues with me.

One issue that I find relevant to reexamine and showcase is the issue of evidence-based thinking as a necessary prerequisite to belief.

stile writes:

Of course if God's existence and benevolence and such can ever become a fact... I would find much happiness in such facts.

In other words...and correct me if I am wrong---you basically claim that evidence would provide you with happiness.

So let me see if I have your position and basic argument correct. You once were a practicing Catholic who may or may not have known the God they worship, and yet you dutifully fulfilled your obligations as a Catholic until you came to the realization that you were as happy and content in your own brand of spirituality so that you know longer needed the franchise nor the promises marketed. You may have read the arguments between myself and Mr. jar and Mr. ringo. The basic argument which they use is that source is unimportant...God is a creation of human imagination anyway and if GOD exists, GOD exists...yet the source is irrelevant and the CONTENT (our daily behavior toward self and others) is the main trait. Would you also tend to agree with their argument?

My argument, fueled by what I have been taught as well as what I choose to believe individually, is that GOD exists, that we humans get to know GOD through Jesus Christ, and that the triunity is established due to the fact that Jesus (and only Jesus) and GOD are united through the manifestation and possession of One Holy Spirit. Thus...when Christians talk about getting saved or born again or enlightened, they are suggesting that this missing element in peoples lives is in Holy Communion with this One Spirit that GOD, Creator of all seen and unseen and Jesus have.

In contrast, you are proposing the idea that all individuals are different and thus why should all individuals be limited to seeking the same One Spirit. Am I close to stating this right?


Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. –RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." –Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith
Whoever trusts in his own mind is a fool, but he who walks in wisdom will be delivered.~Proverbs 28:26

This message is a reply to:
 Message 24 by Stile, posted 10-20-2009 3:08 PM Stile has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 26 by Stile, posted 01-15-2017 9:26 AM Thugpreacha has responded

  
Thugpreacha
Member
Posts: 13365
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 27 of 430 (797222)
01-15-2017 12:03 PM
Reply to: Message 26 by Stile
01-15-2017 9:26 AM


Re: Facts vs. Possibilities
stile writes:

......all individulas are different and thus why should all individuals be limited to seeking the same path to peace, harmony and growth?

there may be many paths up the mountain but they all lead to the same top. My argument concerning One Spirit is that there is but one. every human on the planet doesnt simply have their own little relativistic spirit. Perhaps we should examine your goals of peace,harmony, and growth.

What are we at peace from?

Does harmony mean acceptance of everyones uniqueness? Does this uniqueness prevent humans from sharing a similar goal?

As for growth...what are we growing towards? What are we leaving behind?

stile writes:

What is the "missing element" that is being spoken of?
What does Holy Communion with this One Spirit that GOD, Creator of all seen and unseen and Jesus have?

Perhaps we should discuss the similarities and differences between harmony and unity.

also...if you will...read this verse in John and tell me how it strikes you. Does it seem exclusive or inclusive? Does it seem like something that Gods representative might say or does it offend?

I realize you are not a believer, but I am interested in your opinion.

John 17 writes:


"Father, the time has come. Glorify your Son, that your Son may glorify you. 2 For you granted him authority over all people that he might give eternal life to all those you have given him. 3 Now this is eternal life: that they may know you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom you have sent. 4 I have brought you glory on earth by completing the work you gave me to do. 5 And now, Father, glorify me in your presence with the glory I had with you before the world began.
6 "I have revealed you to those whom you gave me out of the world. They were yours; you gave them to me and they have obeyed your word. 7 Now they know that everything you have given me comes from you. 8 For I gave them the words you gave me and they accepted them. They knew with certainty that I came from you, and they believed that you sent me. 9 I pray for them. I am not praying for the world, but for those you have given me, for they are yours. 10 All I have is yours, and all you have is mine. And glory has come to me through them. 11 I will remain in the world no longer, but they are still in the world, and I am coming to you. Holy Father, protect them by the power of your name-the name you gave me-so that they may be one as we are one. 12 While I was with them, I protected them and kept them safe by that name you gave me. None has been lost except the one doomed to destruction so that Scripture would be fulfilled.
13 "I am coming to you now, but I say these things while I am still in the world, so that they may have the full measure of my joy within them. 14 I have given them your word and the world has hated them, for they are not of the world any more than I am of the world. 15 My prayer is not that you take them out of the world but that you protect them from the evil one. 16 They are not of the world, even as I am not of it. 17 Sanctify them by the truth; your word is truth. 18 As you sent me into the world, I have sent them into the world. 19 For them I sanctify myself, that they too may be truly sanctified.
20 "My prayer is not for them alone. I pray also for those who will believe in me through their message, 21 that all of them may be one, Father, just as you are in me and I am in you. May they also be in us so that the world may believe that you have sent me. 22 I have given them the glory that you gave me, that they may be one as we are one: 23 I in them and you in me. May they be brought to complete unity to let the world know that you sent me and have loved them even as you have loved me.
24 "Father, I want those you have given me to be with me where I am, and to see my glory, the glory you have given me because you loved me before the creation of the world.
25 "Righteous Father, though the world does not know you, I know you, and they know that you have sent me. 26 I have made you known to them, and will continue to make you known in order that the love you have for me may be in them and that I myself may be in them."


Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. –RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." –Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith
Whoever trusts in his own mind is a fool, but he who walks in wisdom will be delivered.~Proverbs 28:26

This message is a reply to:
 Message 26 by Stile, posted 01-15-2017 9:26 AM Stile has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 28 by Stile, posted 01-16-2017 9:31 AM Thugpreacha has responded
 Message 29 by ringo, posted 01-16-2017 11:06 AM Thugpreacha has responded

  
Thugpreacha
Member
Posts: 13365
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 30 of 430 (797294)
01-16-2017 12:41 PM
Reply to: Message 28 by Stile
01-16-2017 9:31 AM


Re: Facts vs. Possibilities
Stile writes:

You seem to think that somewhere, deep down, all people all want the same thing.
I don't think this is true.

Actually, I believe that all people do not want the same thing...except in that it be their own thing. Perhaps the choice should remain free rather than forced.

All people may well need the same thing. I realize that you disagree. Consider the following scripture pieces parts (that jar may consider out of context)

Proverbs 14:12NKJV writes:

There is a way that seems right to a man, But its end is the way of death.

We are taught that many will seek the broad path and few will find the narrow path. The whole analogy of many mountains, many paths sounds a bit like pantheism to me...that there are many ways and in fact many destinations and after all who is to judge?

As to the reason that I consider this one way that I have chosen (or been shown) to be the best path I cannot say.

I believe that God finds us...we do not find Him.

As far as our willingness to accept Him should He knock, I can only respond by quoting Paul.

Rom 3:10-18 writes:


As it is written:

"There is no one righteous, not even one;
there is no one who understands,
no one who seeks God.
All have turned away,
they have together become worthless;
there is no one who does good,
not even one."
"Their throats are open graves;
their tongues practice deceit."
"The poison of vipers is on their lips."
"Their mouths are full of cursing and bitterness."
"Their feet are swift to shed blood;
ruin and misery mark their ways,
and the way of peace they do not know."
"There is no fear of God before their eyes."

Perhaps Paul felt that everyone needed to believe as he did.
I probably feel that Paul had an excellent point, though out of respect for you and your counter argument, I remain reluctantly open minded on this.

Perhaps as you have said, I need to examine why I feel so strongly about this.

Edited by Phat, : No reason given.


Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. –RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." –Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith
Whoever trusts in his own mind is a fool, but he who walks in wisdom will be delivered.~Proverbs 28:26

This message is a reply to:
 Message 28 by Stile, posted 01-16-2017 9:31 AM Stile has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 31 by Stile, posted 01-17-2017 11:16 AM Thugpreacha has responded

  
Thugpreacha
Member
Posts: 13365
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 32 of 430 (797355)
01-18-2017 11:25 AM
Reply to: Message 31 by Stile
01-17-2017 11:16 AM


Re: Facts vs. Possibilities
If your way is so amazing, they will see it for themselves in time anyway.
True.

For one thing, there are many people who honestly and openly seek God and simply have never found Him.
Again, true. I personally believe that God finds us...we don't find Him unless we are making Him up.

Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. –RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." –Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith
Whoever trusts in his own mind is a fool, but he who walks in wisdom will be delivered.~Proverbs 28:26

This message is a reply to:
 Message 31 by Stile, posted 01-17-2017 11:16 AM Stile has acknowledged this reply

Replies to this message:
 Message 35 by ringo, posted 01-19-2017 11:34 AM Thugpreacha has responded

  
Thugpreacha
Member
Posts: 13365
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 36 of 430 (797456)
01-21-2017 4:36 AM
Reply to: Message 35 by ringo
01-19-2017 11:34 AM


Re: Facts vs. Possibilities
Maybe there are some of us that God isn't looking for?
Possible, though I believe that everyone deserves an opportunity. And why wouldn't God love everybody? Im struggling to avoid making this up....

Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. –RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." –Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith
Whoever trusts in his own mind is a fool, but he who walks in wisdom will be delivered.~Proverbs 28:26

This message is a reply to:
 Message 35 by ringo, posted 01-19-2017 11:34 AM ringo has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 42 by ringo, posted 01-23-2017 10:57 AM Thugpreacha has responded

  
Thugpreacha
Member
Posts: 13365
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 38 of 430 (797482)
01-22-2017 8:23 AM
Reply to: Message 29 by ringo
01-16-2017 11:06 AM


One Top Many Paths
Phat writes:

there may be many paths up the mountain but they all lead to the same top.


ringo writes:

Are we going up the mountain or down?

Good point. From Jesus perspective, He alone is at the top. As He looks down He sees many paths leading to many people. Thus, Stiles point about everyone being unique fits the analogy.

I believe that God finds us. He will travel the path that uniquely reaches you. You will, however, have to accept Him for Who He is and not for whom you want Him to be. Or not.


Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. –RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." –Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith
Whoever trusts in his own mind is a fool, but he who walks in wisdom will be delivered.~Proverbs 28:26

This message is a reply to:
 Message 29 by ringo, posted 01-16-2017 11:06 AM ringo has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 43 by ringo, posted 01-23-2017 10:58 AM Thugpreacha has responded

  
Thugpreacha
Member
Posts: 13365
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 39 of 430 (797483)
01-22-2017 8:28 AM
Reply to: Message 34 by Stile
01-19-2017 8:54 AM


IF Stile met Jesus
Stile writes:

Same idea, just removing the context of Christianity, Jesus, God and religion.

The question in my mind is whether you would accept Him on His terms or whether you would reject Him on your terms. You seem to say that you have found what is best for you but He may want you to accept what He thinks is best for you rather than what you personally feel more comfortable with.

Just a thought.

And by the way, when I say "His terms" I mean His personally and not what religion tells you to think.

Keep hypothetical with me, here


Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. –RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." –Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith
Whoever trusts in his own mind is a fool, but he who walks in wisdom will be delivered.~Proverbs 28:26

This message is a reply to:
 Message 34 by Stile, posted 01-19-2017 8:54 AM Stile has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 41 by Stile, posted 01-22-2017 10:38 AM Thugpreacha has responded

  
Thugpreacha
Member
Posts: 13365
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 44 of 430 (797538)
01-23-2017 4:06 PM
Reply to: Message 43 by ringo
01-23-2017 10:58 AM


Re: One Top Many Paths
Phat writes:

You will, however, have to accept Him(God) for Who He is and not for whom you want Him to be. Or not.


ringo writes:

Why doesn't He do the same for us?

You mean accept us how we are?

Think of the possible or potential implications.

And this assumes that there needs to be someone in charge. I suppose you could argue for anarchy.


Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. –RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." –Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith
Whoever trusts in his own mind is a fool, but he who walks in wisdom will be delivered.~Proverbs 28:26

This message is a reply to:
 Message 43 by ringo, posted 01-23-2017 10:58 AM ringo has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 47 by ringo, posted 01-24-2017 10:44 AM Thugpreacha has responded

  
Thugpreacha
Member
Posts: 13365
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 45 of 430 (797539)
01-23-2017 4:09 PM
Reply to: Message 42 by ringo
01-23-2017 10:57 AM


Re: Facts vs. Possibilities
ringo writes:

You tell me. Why would God torture anybody eternally, even if they supposedly "chose" it? Why would He call that "love"?

The way I see it, they actually tortured themselves by making bad choices. I suppose you could argue why God won't help them get back on the right path...if indeed you even believe that there is such a thing as a right path.....

Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. –RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." –Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith
Whoever trusts in his own mind is a fool, but he who walks in wisdom will be delivered.~Proverbs 28:26

This message is a reply to:
 Message 42 by ringo, posted 01-23-2017 10:57 AM ringo has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 48 by ringo, posted 01-24-2017 10:50 AM Thugpreacha has responded

  
Thugpreacha
Member
Posts: 13365
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 46 of 430 (797543)
01-23-2017 4:11 PM
Reply to: Message 41 by Stile
01-22-2017 10:38 AM


Re: IF Stile met Jesus
stile writes:

if God wants me to be "okay" with allowing people to rape little girls... I'm just not going to do that.

If God wants me to be "okay" with helping other people live the best lives we can, I'll certainly get on board.

Perhaps your answers are indicative of the possibility that God already lives inside you whether you are aware of it or not. Perhaps He is waiting on all of us to change the world rather than Him having to do it

Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. –RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." –Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith
Whoever trusts in his own mind is a fool, but he who walks in wisdom will be delivered.~Proverbs 28:26

This message is a reply to:
 Message 41 by Stile, posted 01-22-2017 10:38 AM Stile has acknowledged this reply

  
Thugpreacha
Member
Posts: 13365
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 49 of 430 (797677)
01-25-2017 11:53 AM
Reply to: Message 48 by ringo
01-24-2017 10:50 AM


Re: Facts vs. Possibilities
If somebody gives you a choice between gouging out your eye or chopping off your hand, who is responsible for your pain?
Bad analogy. God doesn't give us two bad choices.

Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. –RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." –Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith
Whoever trusts in his own mind is a fool, but he who walks in wisdom will be delivered.~Proverbs 28:26

This message is a reply to:
 Message 48 by ringo, posted 01-24-2017 10:50 AM ringo has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 52 by ringo, posted 01-26-2017 10:46 AM Thugpreacha has responded

  
Thugpreacha
Member
Posts: 13365
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 53 of 430 (797763)
01-26-2017 1:48 PM
Reply to: Message 52 by ringo
01-26-2017 10:46 AM


Re: Facts vs. Possibilities
But we have no way to know if he is torturing somebody else!

You at first say you see no evidence of God...thus you are an atheist...but then you claim that if God exists you should have the right to define and dictate His actions and choices as if YOU ran the place!

Why not just hypothetically accept the idea that you have a free choice and that choosing Him doesn't cramp your style! I mean....it seems as if you have a built in stubbornness towards authority!

You want your cake and to eat it too!

Its almost as if you are saying that if GOD does in fact exist, you won't be on board unless he does precisely what you want Him to do.

Thus you see belief as one of two bad choices....given that the idea of unbelievers burning eternally is true.

Of course, based on your older arguments, I conclude that you simply prefer to be the captain of your own ship anyway.

Edited by Phat, : No reason given.

Edited by Phat, : No reason given.


Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. –RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." –Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith
Whoever trusts in his own mind is a fool, but he who walks in wisdom will be delivered.~Proverbs 28:26

This message is a reply to:
 Message 52 by ringo, posted 01-26-2017 10:46 AM ringo has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 54 by ringo, posted 01-27-2017 10:44 AM Thugpreacha has responded

  
Thugpreacha
Member
Posts: 13365
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 55 of 430 (797795)
01-27-2017 10:57 AM
Reply to: Message 52 by ringo
01-26-2017 10:46 AM


A Job experience for ringo
ringo writes:

Noah had to save himself FROM GOD.

I see no evidence of this in the story.

Floods happen. Do you blame God for droughts? Hurricanes? Auto accidents?

But if there was a God who could prevent evil and didn't, he would be the enemy.
Fine. Blame God for not magically making life pain free. Its a silly argument, though.
Phat writes:

God doesn't give us two bad choices.


ringo writes:

Yes He does: an eternity of torture or an eternity of knowing He's torturing somebody else.

So in other words, you are arguing that GOD (specifically as a choice) is a bad choice because GOD is supposedly allowing droughts, hurricanes, and auto accidents to kill people....is that close to your position? Are you basically arguing hypothetically against such a GOD based on (in your opinion, mind you) His unwise use of His own power?

Here is basically how I see your position:
"There is no evidence and thus no such a thing as GOD. Humans are basically responsible to each other for choosing empathy, comfort, and good actions and works towards our fellow man. I argue these issues because I find the concept of GOD illogical and strive to continually point this out."

Pretend that you are in a similar position as Job. Pretend that you are suddenly in an argument with a Being that others tell you is GOD. The Being says the following to you:
"Who are YOU,ringo? Is your brain capable of making the calculations of eventual outcomes that I have made in that I have allowed death and suffering to exist for a reason?

If you could see the evidence that I have concluded, would you think any differently?

It seems one of your main arguments tells Me to butt out of your life and quit frying your "friends"....but if I told you that you would eventually die without Me and that your friends also would perish, would you continue to blame Me for allowing a natural process to work?"

In other words, Gods basic argument would be that people cannot survive for long without Him. What would be your personal response to such a Being, assuming you actually had evidence that He was talking to you?


Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. –RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." –Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith
Whoever trusts in his own mind is a fool, but he who walks in wisdom will be delivered.~Proverbs 28:26

This message is a reply to:
 Message 52 by ringo, posted 01-26-2017 10:46 AM ringo has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 58 by ringo, posted 01-27-2017 11:36 AM Thugpreacha has not yet responded
 Message 62 by jar, posted 01-27-2017 1:53 PM Thugpreacha has responded

  
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