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Author Topic:   What Benefits Are Only Available Through God?
Tangle
Member
Posts: 7335
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 2.6


(1)
Message 66 of 438 (797916)
01-29-2017 12:07 PM
Reply to: Message 65 by Phat
01-29-2017 9:48 AM


Re: Point /Counterpoint
Phat writes:

I say that the God character was targeting humanity much as Doctors target Cancer. The drug kills many healthy cells also. Noah was a healthy cell, so to speak...but I will argue that God knew that the cure was better than the disease.

What cure? Noah's progeny - us - turned out to be exactly like the cancer; you know, human. He didn't do anything to change anything - man was still fallen. (In your terms.)

You guys may say that humans cower in fear over Gods judgments...and I've no reason to disagree. We have to respect the authority, however. One cannot simply stand up and brazenly laugh in His face.

No, no, no. You're still seeing this from your own viewpoint. "You guys" - i.e. atheists - do not laugh in god's face, how can they? he doesn't exist. Once again, do you laugh in the face of pixies?

When you talk about what we think or do, just think about how you view elves or fairies. IT'S EXACTLY THE SAME.


Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien.

"Life, don't talk to me about life" - Marvin the Paranoid Android

"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 65 by Phat, posted 01-29-2017 9:48 AM Phat has not yet responded

  
Tangle
Member
Posts: 7335
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 2.6


Message 185 of 438 (853304)
05-25-2019 1:47 PM


Looks like Phat has finally lost the plot and gone over to the dark side where things are simple.

Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London.I am Finland. Soy Barcelona

"Life, don't talk to me about life" - Marvin the Paranoid Android

"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.


Replies to this message:
 Message 187 by Phat, posted 05-25-2019 2:52 PM Tangle has responded

  
Tangle
Member
Posts: 7335
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 2.6


(1)
Message 188 of 438 (853308)
05-25-2019 3:13 PM
Reply to: Message 187 by Phat
05-25-2019 2:52 PM


Re: Donnie Darko
Phat writes:

The dark side? How could I have become the very thing I was opposed to?

Very, very easily, you just have to achieve certainty in a belief system and start getting angry and blocking, barring and denouncing believers of different beliefs systems.

We need to go fishing and forget all of this religious philosophy for a while.

Spent two days doing just that and I have no difficulty forgetting religious philosophy, for me it's just a hobby when bored. For you it seems all encompassing. That's unhealthy.

And As I said, I need to lay off the stimulants and get more exercise.

No argument there.


Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London.I am Finland. Soy Barcelona

"Life, don't talk to me about life" - Marvin the Paranoid Android

"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 187 by Phat, posted 05-25-2019 2:52 PM Phat has acknowledged this reply

  
Tangle
Member
Posts: 7335
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 2.6


Message 202 of 438 (853334)
05-26-2019 2:02 PM
Reply to: Message 201 by Phat
05-26-2019 12:41 PM


Re: As An Aside...
Phat writes:

The fact that there is no evidence does not negate the possibility.

If no evidence has been found where evidence should be found, that generally rules out the hypothesis.

Why do you think there is no evidence?


Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London.I am Finland. Soy Barcelona

"Life, don't talk to me about life" - Marvin the Paranoid Android

"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 201 by Phat, posted 05-26-2019 12:41 PM Phat has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 209 by Phat, posted 05-26-2019 3:12 PM Tangle has responded

  
Tangle
Member
Posts: 7335
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 2.6


Message 210 of 438 (853343)
05-26-2019 3:15 PM
Reply to: Message 206 by Phat
05-26-2019 3:07 PM


Re: As An Aside...
Phat writes:

It was not from cultural brainwashing

Of course it was, that's why you believe in Jesus not Mohamed. Nobody becomes a Christian unless they've heard of Christ. Why is that?


Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London.I am Finland. Soy Barcelona

"Life, don't talk to me about life" - Marvin the Paranoid Android

"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 206 by Phat, posted 05-26-2019 3:07 PM Phat has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 215 by Phat, posted 05-26-2019 3:33 PM Tangle has responded

  
Tangle
Member
Posts: 7335
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 2.6


(1)
Message 214 of 438 (853347)
05-26-2019 3:24 PM
Reply to: Message 209 by Phat
05-26-2019 3:12 PM


Re: As An Aside...
Phat writes:

What possible evidence could there be, apart from the believers themselves?

Your god is supposed to intervene in our world. We don't see it. Prayers are supposed to be answered. They aren't.

Assuming that we have a spark in us that others lack. Of course, critics will label it as kool-aid.

Critics will label it narcissism and bullshit.


Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London.I am Finland. Soy Barcelona

"Life, don't talk to me about life" - Marvin the Paranoid Android

"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 209 by Phat, posted 05-26-2019 3:12 PM Phat has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 220 by Phat, posted 05-26-2019 5:04 PM Tangle has responded

  
Tangle
Member
Posts: 7335
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 2.6


Message 218 of 438 (853352)
05-26-2019 4:12 PM
Reply to: Message 215 by Phat
05-26-2019 3:33 PM


Re: As An Aside...
Phat writes:

Quora is a valuable website that helps me to ask better questions. As an example, note the following exchange:

I'm not interested in copy and paste quora, I asked *you* a question.


Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London.I am Finland. Soy Barcelona

"Life, don't talk to me about life" - Marvin the Paranoid Android

"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 215 by Phat, posted 05-26-2019 3:33 PM Phat has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 225 by Phat, posted 05-26-2019 9:27 PM Tangle has not yet responded

  
Tangle
Member
Posts: 7335
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 2.6


Message 223 of 438 (853361)
05-26-2019 5:48 PM
Reply to: Message 220 by Phat
05-26-2019 5:04 PM


Re: As An Aside...
Phat writes:

Some of us do. Granted not all see it.

By “we don't see it” I mean that we cannot see any objective evidence of it. Not that some individuals belief that they see it but can't demonstrate it.

Again...not all prayers are answered. Some are answered.

Please show me which prayers have been answered.

Who suggested they all should be answered?

I'm asking for objective evidence for *any*.


Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London.I am Finland. Soy Barcelona

"Life, don't talk to me about life" - Marvin the Paranoid Android

"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 220 by Phat, posted 05-26-2019 5:04 PM Phat has not yet responded

  
Tangle
Member
Posts: 7335
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 2.6


Message 237 of 438 (853393)
05-27-2019 9:15 AM
Reply to: Message 233 by foreveryoung
05-27-2019 8:17 AM


FEY writes:

It's highly unlikely any of those purposes will give you the ability to withstand severe setbacks in life unless perhaps you abide by some philosophy like stoicism and stoicism is a poor way to live compared to a God inspired purpose.

Don't be ridiculous, millions of people get through life quite happily without needing the mental support from an imaginary magic being.


Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London.I am Finland. Soy Barcelona

"Life, don't talk to me about life" - Marvin the Paranoid Android

"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 233 by foreveryoung, posted 05-27-2019 8:17 AM foreveryoung has not yet responded

  
Tangle
Member
Posts: 7335
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 2.6


Message 260 of 438 (853447)
05-27-2019 2:20 PM
Reply to: Message 256 by Phat
05-27-2019 1:57 PM


Re: All praise Her Noodliness
Phat writes:

People believe what they believe for a variety of reasons.

Yes, that should tell you something.

You guys point out that leprechauns are every bit as likely (thus as rational) as is God...

No, we don't believe in leprechauns either, or Treasure Island. We're just pointing out that there's nothing special about your book or your beliefs. They're just irrational, unevidenced, beliefs.

but I would argue that I felt something with God that I did not ever feel with Leprechauns.

Of course, you believe in a Christian god not leprechauns. Muslims would say exactly the same thing. That should also tell you something.


Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London.I am Finland. Soy Barcelona

"Life, don't talk to me about life" - Marvin the Paranoid Android

"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 256 by Phat, posted 05-27-2019 1:57 PM Phat has not yet responded

  
Tangle
Member
Posts: 7335
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 2.6


Message 293 of 438 (853582)
05-29-2019 9:48 AM
Reply to: Message 291 by Phat
05-29-2019 8:32 AM


Re: Still no evidence of ANY benefits available only through God.
Phat writes:

Because evidence is not the only tool that supports the possible existence or presence of God as we understand Him.

Evidence is the only way we can understand anything.

Everything else is purely subjective. When it all bottoms out - all the argument, all the books and all the mental gymnastics - the only thing that actually matters to you is your personal belief, this 'revealed truth'. If you allow yourself to think that Jesus is real in your life there's nothing you can't rationalise away. Everything just washes over you and you carry on regardless.

If it was any belief other than a god belief it would be called a form of mental illness. The god delusion is only accepted as ok because it's been around so long and used to be universal. It will eventually be seen for what it is but it's taking a long time.


Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London.I am Finland. Soy Barcelona

"Life, don't talk to me about life" - Marvin the Paranoid Android

"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 291 by Phat, posted 05-29-2019 8:32 AM Phat has acknowledged this reply

  
Tangle
Member
Posts: 7335
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 2.6


Message 295 of 438 (853585)
05-29-2019 11:06 AM
Reply to: Message 294 by Faith
05-29-2019 10:46 AM


Faith writes:

Christianity did occur in the real world and these facts are markers. This is not true of other religions which are mostly books of instruction in how to llve your llfe. They don't bother about time and place because they have no reason to.

Well that took at least 90 seconds to prove stupidly wrong.

quote:
The Prophet travelled from Mecca to Jerusalem in a single night on a strange winged creature called Buraq. From Jerusalem he ascended into heaven, where he met the earlier prophets, and eventually God.

It's almost as if you think that anything you type becomes true just by typing it. Very Trumpian.


Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London.I am Finland. Soy Barcelona

"Life, don't talk to me about life" - Marvin the Paranoid Android

"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 294 by Faith, posted 05-29-2019 10:46 AM Faith has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 296 by Faith, posted 05-29-2019 11:13 AM Tangle has responded

  
Tangle
Member
Posts: 7335
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 2.6


Message 301 of 438 (853597)
05-29-2019 11:59 AM
Reply to: Message 296 by Faith
05-29-2019 11:13 AM


Faith writes:

Where on earth is that piece of hogwash written?

That'll be the Quran, Faith.

I believe it mentions Mecca too. Well Bakkah actually, it's name at the time. So that's time and place.

Funny how other people's dumb belief sound like hogwash isn't it?


Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London.I am Finland. Soy Barcelona

"Life, don't talk to me about life" - Marvin the Paranoid Android

"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 296 by Faith, posted 05-29-2019 11:13 AM Faith has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 304 by Faith, posted 05-29-2019 12:10 PM Tangle has responded

  
Tangle
Member
Posts: 7335
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 2.6


(1)
Message 305 of 438 (853603)
05-29-2019 12:12 PM
Reply to: Message 302 by foreveryoung
05-29-2019 12:06 PM


Re: Still no evidence of ANY benefits available only through God.
FEY writes:

If a purpose is derived from islam or buddhism it will pale in comparison to a purpose that is derived from a sincere belief in the God of the bible.

What amazing hubris! Everybody else's belief is is inferior to mine. What crap.


Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London.I am Finland. Soy Barcelona

"Life, don't talk to me about life" - Marvin the Paranoid Android

"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 302 by foreveryoung, posted 05-29-2019 12:06 PM foreveryoung has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 307 by Faith, posted 05-29-2019 12:16 PM Tangle has not yet responded

  
Tangle
Member
Posts: 7335
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 2.6


Message 309 of 438 (853611)
05-29-2019 12:20 PM
Reply to: Message 304 by Faith
05-29-2019 12:10 PM


Faith writes:

Let me correct my statement then to say that the Bible's historical and geographical references are NOT MERELY CIRCUMSTANTIAL AS CLEARLY IS THE CASE WITH ISLAM, THEY CONTRIBUTE TO THE AUTHENTICATION OF THE REVELATION.

There is absolutely no difference between Jesus riding into Jerusalem on a donkey and Mohamed turning up in Mecca. They're both real places and both occur at specific times. So according to you, must both contribute to authentication. Or neither do. The latter is, of course, the case.


Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London.I am Finland. Soy Barcelona

"Life, don't talk to me about life" - Marvin the Paranoid Android

"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 304 by Faith, posted 05-29-2019 12:10 PM Faith has not yet responded

  
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