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Author
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Topic: What Benefits Are Only Available Through God?
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ringo
Member (Idle past 434 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: 03-23-2005
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Message 221 of 438 (853359)
05-26-2019 5:16 PM
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Reply to: Message 220 by Phat
05-26-2019 5:04 PM
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Re: As An Aside...
Phat writes: Some of us do.
Some see Bigfoot, some don't.
Phat writes: Again...not all prayers are answered. Some are answered.
Bigfoot answers some prayers, not all.
Phat writes: Who suggested they all should be answered?
What proportion do YOU think would be adequate to justify saying, "God answers prayer"? One in a million? What proportion would be low enough for you to call it coincidence?
Izquierdo.
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 220 by Phat, posted 05-26-2019 5:04 PM | | Phat has not replied |
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ringo
Member (Idle past 434 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: 03-23-2005
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Re: a god made the folking deal: your belief in exchange for a ransom paid to himself
foreveryoung writes: Is a leprechaun all knowing, all powerful and existing outside of time and space?
Is your God? The only "information" you have about your God is:
1. in the Bible, which is inconsistent and unverifiable.
2. made up by theologians and apologists to try to fix the inconsistencies in the Bible
3. made up by you
Izquierdo.
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ringo
Member (Idle past 434 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: 03-23-2005
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Message 242 of 438 (853417)
05-27-2019 11:54 AM
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Reply to: Message 240 by Faith
05-27-2019 11:40 AM
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Re: God is all powerful and outside time and space
Faith writes: jar writes: First, man not God, wrote the Bible.
Not according to the Bible itself, as held by traditionalists.
Treasure Island claims to have been written by Jim Hawkins (with a chapter added by Dr. Livesey for clarity). It's an old literary trick. You can't use the book as evidence for the book.
Izquierdo.
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 240 by Faith, posted 05-27-2019 11:40 AM | | Faith has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 267 by Faith, posted 05-27-2019 6:37 PM | | ringo has replied |
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ringo
Member (Idle past 434 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: 03-23-2005
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Re: All praise Her Noodliness
foreveryoung writes: I just showed that the claims made for the biblical God and a leprechaun are nothing alike.
No you didn't. You made an empty claim.
Izquierdo.
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ringo
Member (Idle past 434 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: 03-23-2005
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Re: All praise Her Noodliness
foreveryoung writes: So leprechauns are eternal and all powerful and exist outside of space and time? Who says that besides you?
The question is, why should we think your claims about your God are any different? This "eternal" and "all-powerful" and "outside of space and time" business is all made up. There is no factual basis for it. Even the Bible doesn't really support it. So why can't we make up the same nonsense about leprechauns?
Izquierdo.
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ringo
Member (Idle past 434 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: 03-23-2005
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Re: All praise Her Noodliness
foreveryoung writes: There are not 66 books that refer to leprechauns spread out over thousands of years.
Sure there are, even if they haven't all been bound together in one volume. And the only reason the Bible books were ever gathered together was because somebody believed something. Belief in something is not evidence that that something is real.
foreveryoung writes: They are mentioned in fairytales that make no pretense of speaking of reality.
"Pretense" is not exactly a good defense for your claim. A lot of books pretend to speak of reality but don't - e.g. Treasure Island. And of course there are things in the Bible that don't pretend to correspond to reality - e.g. the talking snake.
foreveryoung writes: These 66 books refer to actual places and people and events.
Treasure Island refers to Bristol, a real place. It also mentions Captain Kidd and Blackbeard, real pirates, as well as real 18th-century historical events.
foreveryoung writes: Your claim is that all these authors made it up out of thin air. Can you provide a case that it's so based on actual evidence?
You have it backwards. We don't assume that an entire book is true just because it mentions some real people, places or events. Everything must pass its own individual truth test. And of course your God can't.
Izquierdo.
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ringo
Member (Idle past 434 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: 03-23-2005
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Message 259 of 438 (853445)
05-27-2019 2:18 PM
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Reply to: Message 256 by Phat
05-27-2019 1:57 PM
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Re: All praise Her Noodliness
Phat writes: ...but I would argue that I felt something with God that I did not ever feel with Leprechauns.
And other people have subjective feelings about other things, including other gods. That's why it's a bad idea to base your sense of reality on subjective feelings.
Izquierdo.
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 256 by Phat, posted 05-27-2019 1:57 PM | | Phat has not replied |
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ringo
Member (Idle past 434 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: 03-23-2005
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Message 276 of 438 (853511)
05-28-2019 11:39 AM
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Reply to: Message 267 by Faith
05-27-2019 6:37 PM
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Re: God is all powerful and outside time and space
Faith writes: ... this is demonstrated by Peter's explanation of how messages from God were given "in old time" -- through the Holy Spirit.
There you go again, using the book to support itself.
Izquierdo.
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 267 by Faith, posted 05-27-2019 6:37 PM | | Faith has not replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 277 by Phat, posted 05-28-2019 11:43 AM | | ringo has replied |
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ringo
Member (Idle past 434 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: 03-23-2005
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Message 279 of 438 (853517)
05-28-2019 11:52 AM
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Reply to: Message 277 by Phat
05-28-2019 11:43 AM
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Re: God is all powerful and outside time and space
Phat writes: She is using the ideas in the book to support the contention that the book makes sense.
That's what I said. It's like saying, "This sentence is proof of Bigfoot."
Izquierdo.
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 277 by Phat, posted 05-28-2019 11:43 AM | | Phat has not replied |
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ringo
Member (Idle past 434 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: 03-23-2005
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Message 283 of 438 (853539)
05-28-2019 3:50 PM
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Reply to: Message 282 by Faith
05-28-2019 3:42 PM
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Re: All praise Her Noodliness
Faith writes: ... llke most others here you have to destroy Christianity.
I, for one, don't want to destroy Christianity. Almost everybody I know is a Christian - or at leat a professing one like you. I just want to take the Bible for what it is, not the fantasy that you try to peddle.
Izquierdo.
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 282 by Faith, posted 05-28-2019 3:42 PM | | Faith has not replied |
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ringo
Member (Idle past 434 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: 03-23-2005
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foreveryoung writes: I know you dispute the bible's reckoning but you cannot prove it to be false much less a myth.
It has been proven that the creation and the flood are myths.
Izquierdo.
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 306 by Faith, posted 05-29-2019 12:12 PM | | ringo has replied |
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ringo
Member (Idle past 434 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: 03-23-2005
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Message 308 of 438 (853607)
05-29-2019 12:18 PM
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Reply to: Message 292 by Phat
05-29-2019 8:45 AM
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Re: One Top Many Paths
Phat writes: Ringo seems to think that it is impossible for the "Bible" to support the idea and belief in itself.
It is impossible for any book to support itself. In fact, it is impossible even for a verifiable piece of evidence to support itself. The verification must come from outside.
Phat writes: I would challenge this assertion.
But your "challenge" consists of quoting the Bible. How many times must you be told? You can't quote Treasure Island to prove Treasure Island.
Phat writes: Thus I have shown that the stories in the Bible indeed can support the belief and ideology and hold their own with modern philosophical thought.
Most fiction does that.
Izquierdo.
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 292 by Phat, posted 05-29-2019 8:45 AM | | Phat has seen this message but not replied |
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ringo
Member (Idle past 434 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: 03-23-2005
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Message 310 of 438 (853612)
05-29-2019 12:23 PM
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Reply to: Message 306 by Faith
05-29-2019 12:12 PM
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Faith writes: Some of you folks seem to think that scientists are some sort of modern-day shamans who will unveil the truths of the universe to us.
Nope. You have failed, to the point of comedy, in every attempt to do that.
Izquierdo.
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 306 by Faith, posted 05-29-2019 12:12 PM | | Faith has not replied |
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ringo
Member (Idle past 434 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: 03-23-2005
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Message 330 of 438 (853741)
05-31-2019 11:43 AM
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Reply to: Message 318 by Phat
05-31-2019 10:02 AM
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Re: Still no evidence of ANY benefits available only through God.
Phat writes: If there is nothing to any of this Holy Spirit stuff, why is it I have cried for 15 minutes straight at the last two services I attended? What else would have triggered such a reaction from me?
Yer kidding, right? You can't think of any other reason why you might have an emotional response to something? A "Holy Spirit" is the only possibility?
Izquierdo.
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 318 by Phat, posted 05-31-2019 10:02 AM | | Phat has not replied |
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ringo
Member (Idle past 434 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: 03-23-2005
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Message 332 of 438 (853743)
05-31-2019 11:50 AM
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Reply to: Message 326 by GDR
05-31-2019 11:28 AM
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GDR writes: Does he wish he had never been born? The fact that he had the life that he did was a benefit.
Maybe we should be talking about a net benefit here. After all, a lot of people do wish they had never been born.
Izquierdo.
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 326 by GDR, posted 05-31-2019 11:28 AM | | GDR has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 335 by GDR, posted 05-31-2019 12:21 PM | | ringo has replied |
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