What Benefits Are Only Available Through God?

Obviously, good Doctor. People believe what they believe for a variety of reasons. You guys point out that leprechauns are every bit as likely (thus as rational) as is God...but I would argue that I felt something with God that I did not ever feel with Leprechauns. I can't argue against ringos premise that there is no difference from an objective point of view but am essentially defending my point based on subjective experience. Quid pro Quo, Dr.Lector?(Jones)

So Ireland isn't an actual place?

that's because you didn't believe in leprechauns hard enough.

And other people have subjective feelings about other things, including other gods. That's why it's a bad idea to base your sense of reality on subjective feelings.

Yes, that should tell you something. No, we don't believe in leprechauns either, or Treasure Island. We're just pointing out that there's nothing special about your book or your beliefs. They're just irrational, unevidenced, beliefs. Of course, you believe in a Christian god not leprechauns. Muslims would say exactly the same thing. That should also tell you something.

I completely agree.I would add a bit more clarity, though.The idea that "not all purposes or life meanings are equally valuable" is useless in some generic absolute sense.
Unless you are able to provide a reasonable measuring system that accurately and objectively identifies how 'valuable' different life meanings or purposes actually are?The problem is that purpose and life meanings are subjective - they are different for different people.
What may be extremely powerful for you, can be useless to another.
What may be extremely powerful for me, can be useless to you.You seem to be implying that belief in the God of the Bible has provided you, in your life, the most powerful, purposeful meaning you've ever experienced.I think that's great.
I also think you should continue to pursue such a thing, it's kind of rare.However, I've tried it - and it's useless to me.
I get no meaning or purpose from an external entity. Especially one who's existence itself is... questionable. But even granting God's existence and His all-powerful-ness... I get no strength from Him no matter how sincerely I ask from Him or Jesus Christ.I do, however, find the most powerful, purposeful meaning I've ever experienced from my family and focusing on loving them and my friends.Which is greater? Mine or yours?
In an objective sense - I don't care, really.
I'm me and "value" is subjective. Therefore I'm the "highest authority" on what is valuable to me.I'm constantly asking God and Jesus Christ to accept me... but they don't seem to respond, so it appears to be out of my reach.
Therefore, in the subjective sense that actually matters - the most powerful, purposeful meaning I am able to obtain is what I gain from my family and friends. It works for me.
And I don't abide by stoicism, either - I don't think so, anyway - I'm not fully informed on what "stoicism" would entirely entail.I have withstood extremely sever setbacks in life. No God helped. And no God was required in order for me to make it though.But lets say you're right... maybe believing in God does help people withstand severe setbacks in life more than other things.
What would we expect to see?For the most part - we would expect to see some sort of significantly identifiable number of "God of the Bible Believers" who are:
-mentally stronger
-happier people
-more respected by their peers for their wisdom and ability to helpBut do we see this? Anywhere?
I've never been made aware - do you know something I don't?As far as I can tell - "God of the Bible Believers" are just like the rest of us.
-they are equally mentally strong. Some are very strong, some are very weak - just like non-God-Believers
-they are equally happy people. Some are very happy, some are very sad - just like non-God-Believers
-they are equally respected people. Some are very respected, some are very despicable - just like non-God-BelieversIt seems like you can continue to claim "a better purpose" or "more meaning" as much as you like.
But - the proof is in the reality: No group of "God of the Bible Believers" is significantly doing any better than any group of "non-God-Believers."Therefore - you're wrong about the purpose in life from believing in the God of the Bible being "better."You very well may be right that it's the best - for you personally.
But this means nothing more than that - you found what works for you.I suggest that all people should find what works for them.
For some, it will be believing in the God of the Bible - these people should believe in God.
For others, it will be something else - these people should pursue the alternative that will work better for them.

I think this is the "feeling of enlightenment" that so many chase after in so many different ways.Some seek thrills through dangerous activities.
Some meditate.
Some reach levels of peak performance or draining their physical strength.
Some ponder how the universe works.The methodology of getting there seems to be different for different people. And even the ability to get there. Some can enter such a state almost at will. Others may not even be capable of getting it once in their whole life. What is preventing you from doing this?
Or, perhaps... what do you mean by "combine?"Doesn't the church still teach that the church, itself, is mostly meaningless? And it's Jesus and God that contain all the meaning? And they are able to follow you everywhere and anywhere?
Why can't they follow you when you have intellectually stimulating conversations?Remember - a "support group" isn't all-powerful. It's just a bunch of other people. They can fail too. They can be wrong or sad or foolish.
A support group isn't a fail-safe. It's a crutch. It's called a "support" group. Not a "get-out-of-jail-free" group.
The idea is to understand reality and find a way to exist within it as well as possible.
Not create a fantasy and try to hide there as much as possible until reality crashes into it again.

Uhh, no you didn't.

And he probably ate a bad burrito.

or a really good burrito, I've had some food that might convince me of divine beings.

Again, that is simply the dogma of your Cult and has absolutely no Biblical basis. You are just parroting word salad and nonsense.Remember, it is you who claims the support of the Bible and nowhere does the Bible say anything about Joan of Arc. Nor is speaking through some other agency evidence to support anything about any GOD. Allah has the same evidential basis as what you are claiming. Allah spoke to Muammad through an angel.

I'm not using it as evidence. I'm pointing out how traditionalists understand it, as a whole in which all the parts fit together and modify each other, and this is demonstrated by Peter's explanation of how messages from God were given "in old time" -- through the Holy Spirit. And this view of it contrasts with jar's view which fragments it into separate books and gives a different length for them which I assume is according to different canons which were developed down the centuries. So in contrast I'm describing how today's traditionalists see it and you can take it or leave it as you are persuaded.Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

Again Faith, it is not my view but rather reality and fact. There are different Bibles and that is fact. The shortest recognizes only those books which would have been Canonized at the time Jesus lived and so is just 5 books, the first 5 books. Yet it is still "The Bible". The largest includes over 80 books. Yet it is still the Bible.No one questions what "Traditionalist" believe. But traditional Christians of different sects also believe what you call "The Bible" is simply wrong.But that is still not the point. You still have never and cannot address the fact that all versions of the Bible do contain contradictions, factual errors, myth and fantasy.

As I said, there is jar's view and my view, as far as this forum goes, and you may agree with either of us or neither of us. There is nothing more to say.

Well, thank you. Both of you.I look forward to the next round.