What Benefits Are Only Available Through God?

Message 394 of 418 (854214) 06-05-2019 5:03 PM

Reply to: Message 390 by GDR 06-05-2019 3:46 PM

The question then becomes what is the most efficient use of our time while here on earth. Ringo seems to think we all should focus on doing...and that belief is irrelevant and, in fact, harmful. Tangle and Theodoric agree to some extent. Tangle, however, raises the stakes when he states to GDR:

The haughty arrogance of the humanist/atheists is explained here:
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Barnes's Isaiah 5:19 Bible Commentary
That says... - They add one sin to another for "the purpose of defying" God and provoking him to anger. They pretend that he will not punish sin; and hence, they plunge deeper into it, and defy him to punish them.
Let him make speed - Let him come quickly to punish.
And hasten his work - His punishment.
That we may see it - An expression of defiance. We would like to see him undertake it.

The counsel of the Holy One ... - His threatened purpose to punish. This is the language of all sinners. They plunge deep into sin; they mock at the threatenings of God; they defy him to do his utmost; they do not believe his declarations. It is difficult to conceive more dreadful and high-handed iniquity than this.
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Which brings up several questions. You claim that "sane Christians" are heading towards secularism and humanism, correct? The implication is, of course, that the insane Christians such as myself teach that the world will never improve without accepting the Holy Spirit--through Jesus Christ, and surrendering to this necessary flow.

And if so, you are quite correct.

Secularism: the principle of separation of the state from religious institutions.-- Make no mistake, I believe in the separation of church and state. What bothers me is when the state attempts to impose its own "religion" and code of ethics as a default for everyone. I will fight that one with my last dying breath.
Hopefully, the Democratic majority will never become an atheist majority. They can create their own rules in their own homes but not in mine.

Humanism:an outlook or system of thought attaching prime importance to human rather than divine or supernatural matters. Humanist beliefs stress the potential value and goodness of human beings, emphasize common human needs, and seek solely rational ways of solving human problems. It all sounds good and well if we were in fact not in a spiritual war and if God was but a myth. He isn't. You will never convince us of this. Even if you silence me, God Himself will put you deceived and deluded (though well-meaning people) in check for all eternity.

Edited by Thugpreacha, : fixed spelling and punctuation errors

Message 395 of 418 (854215) 06-05-2019 5:07 PM

Reply to: Message 390 by GDR 06-05-2019 3:46 PM

I suspect that your belief is entirely unique. Actually I suspect all are. They're all personal variants within the 30,000 or so Christian mythologies. Your variant of a modernised liberal Christian belief system involves distorted science that you don't understand but jemmie into your model and compromising all the basic founding features of the belief itself. It's great, there's virtually nothing left of it but gentle Jesus meek and mild.

I listened to your ex-boss, Archbishop Rowan Williams a couple of years ago, I liked him a lot, he's an intelligent and thoughtful guy. Intelligent enough to give up the job too. I watched him struggle to answer a simple question about the existence of god and I could see that he was really struggling with it. Like I say, it's agnosticism bar the name.

You haven't yet understood my point. And I'm not criticising the Anglican church. As religions go, it's one of the best. My actual preference is for the Quakers if I had to choose.

Yeh I know all that. That's the official version but I know an awful lot of Anglicans and their actual beliefs are wide and mostly wishy-washy nice.

Liar, liar pants on fire!

Of course you're doing wonderful things and trying to help people but the underlying agenda is conversion. Bringing the good news etc. My wife has a good friend who was an Anglican missionary in Africa, her and her husband now look back on their days there in horror of what they did. Maybe things have changed or your lot is very special - perhaps, but that's not the norm.

Message 396 of 418 (854217) 06-05-2019 5:28 PM

Reply to: Message 394 by Thugpreacha 06-05-2019 5:03 PM

There's no spiritual war Phat. Atheist don't give a hoot what you nutters believe so long as you don't interfere with what others believe or don't believe.

Says you.

Look, feel free to rant and rave away to your heart's content. No one cares. No one's trying to silence you are they?

I have to say, it sounds like you're trying to be a martyr.

I'm sure you'll recover your mental balance soon - at least I hope so.

Message 399 of 418 (854227) 06-05-2019 7:50 PM

Reply to: Message 395 by Tangle 06-05-2019 5:07 PM

It was an interesting read. I think that the church in general is going largely back to that model. Instead of evangelizing the church's vocation is all about loving service. If because of seeing this loving service in action it causes people to inquire about Christian beliefs then sure you talk about it, but that isn't the point. The point is simply to model the Bible verse I use in my quote.

Message 402 of 418 (854286) 06-06-2019 2:41 PM

Reply to: Message 400 by ringo 06-06-2019 11:39 AM

As I reflect on my own aggressive behavior, I am reminded of the catchphrase of What Would Jesus Do?

Would Jesus simply buy the homeless guy a beer or would Jesus buy him a meal? Would Jesus charge him with shoplifting or would Jesus pray for him while overlooking the obvious sin of "Thou Shalt Not Steal"? Would Jesus annoy everyone at EvC Forum with a self-righteous attitude or would Jesus strive for humility and understanding? These sorts of inner dialogues are necessary on a daily basis.

Some would argue that we are responsible for our own behavior, and I won't disagree. What I will do, however, is to always ask myself what Jesus would likely do in any given situation.

Message 403 of 418 (854295) 06-06-2019 6:00 PM

Reply to: Message 400 by ringo 06-06-2019 11:39 AM

The one who loved his neighbour was the one of the "hated Samaritans" who took care of the individual and even paid for his accommodation. I suggest that from a Christian perspective if Jesus was telling that parable today, it would be the story of the "Good Muslim", as it is clear that this is a call on the hearts of all mankind and has nothing to do with our various doctrines.

In this example it is even more clear that the command to love is more than just action, it also includes being prepared to love at our own expense.

Message 404 of 418 (854297) 06-06-2019 6:11 PM

Reply to: Message 401 by Thugpreacha 06-06-2019 2:33 PM

In so many cases today Christians have gotten so focused on personal salvation, to the point that what we are called to has been often made secondary. You are right. We should get back to the vocation that God calls His church to.

Message 407 of 418 (854364) 06-07-2019 4:14 PM

Reply to: Message 405 by ringo 06-07-2019 11:38 AM

I need to pray for humility, though. I tend to get arrogant when I knock these secular fastballs out of the park. But then again, you guys see no Umpire. He is but a myth.