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Author Topic:   Barack Obama wins Nobel Peace Prize
onifre
Member (Idle past 1292 days)
Posts: 4854
From: Dark Side of the Moon
Joined: 02-20-2008


Message 16 of 57 (529476)
10-09-2009 2:01 PM
Reply to: Message 15 by Rahvin
10-09-2009 1:39 PM


I think this quote says it best, Rahvin:

quote:
"Isn’t it ironic that the leader of a hegemony country wins a Nobel Peace Prize?"

source

- Oni


This message is a reply to:
 Message 15 by Rahvin, posted 10-09-2009 1:39 PM Rahvin has not yet responded

  
roxrkool
Member
Posts: 1496
From: Nevada
Joined: 03-23-2003


Message 17 of 57 (529478)
10-09-2009 2:14 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by Larni
10-09-2009 5:38 AM


Seems a little premature, but I'm thinking this has more to do with how the rest of the world feels about our new president than what actions he's personally taken since being elected. The rest of the world feels pretty damn optimistic with Obama in office. Maybe that's enough for them.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by Larni, posted 10-09-2009 5:38 AM Larni has not yet responded

  
caffeine
Member
Posts: 1731
From: Prague, Czech Republic
Joined: 10-22-2008
Member Rating: 6.0


Message 18 of 57 (529479)
10-09-2009 2:40 PM
Reply to: Message 12 by bluescat48
10-09-2009 11:26 AM


One stupid question: Has the Nobel committee ever refused to give a prize in a given year since it thought there were no viable candidates?

Yes - there was no prize given in 1972, 1967, 1966, 1956, 1955, 1948, 1939-43, 1932, 1928, 1924, 1923, 1918 or 1914-1916. As you can see though, it's been almost 4 decades since they last neglected to hand out a prize. The year after that they apparently decided to start giving them out to names pulled out of a hat, and symbolised this new regime by giving Kissinger the award for failed and insincere peace negotiations.


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Rahvin
Member
Posts: 3964
Joined: 07-01-2005


Message 19 of 57 (529480)
10-09-2009 2:42 PM


The real reason Obama got the prize
And I'm not even being sarcastic!

Reuters put this up:

quote:
OSLO, Oct 7 (Reuters) - Wanted - a peace maker or rights activist engaged in a current conflict whose influence would benefit greatly from winning the Nobel Peace Prize.

That is who Norway's Nobel Committee will choose for 2009 Peace Prize laureate if, as experts expect, it returns closer to Alfred Nobel's notion of peace. Past prizes went to climate campaigners, life-long diplomats and grass-roots economists.

Top contenders for the $1.4 million prize include Colombian peace broker Piedad Cordoba, Afghan rights activist Sima Samar and Zimbabwe's Prime Minister Morgan Tsvangirai.

French-Colombian activist and ex-hostage Ingrid Betancourt, Jordanian interfaith dialogue advocate Prince Ghazi bin Muhammad and U.S. and French presidents Barack Obama and Nicolas Sarkozy are also in the running, although the field remains wide open.

Maltese-based bookmaker Betsafe lists Betancourt at 5-to-1, and Tsvangirai at 6-to-1. Austrialian Centrebet has Cordoba and Samar at 6-to-1 and both Obama and Tsvangirai at 7-to-1.

The secretive five-member Norwegian Nobel Committee does not disclose the nominees. The winner will be announced on Oct. 9.

"It's quite likely this committee will reward somebody who is engaged in current processes," said Kristian Berg Harpviken, head of the International Peace Institute in Oslo (PRIO).

"They want the prize to have an impact on things that are about to happen and want to affect events," he told Reuters.

Last year, Finn Martti Ahtisaari won for three decades of work to resolve numerous international conflicts. The prize was seen as a well-earned lifetime achievement award and did not appear have much impact on ongoing conflicts, critics say.

BIGGEST IMPACT OF PRIZE

Earlier this decade the Nobel committee said it widened the definition of peace to include environmental activism, with Al Gore and the United Nations' climate panel winning in 2007 and Kenyan conservationist Wangari Maathai in 2004.

Some say this strays too far from Swedish inventor Alfred Nobel's 1895 will, in which he says the accolade will go to those who do most for fraternity between nations, the abolition or reduction of standing armies and for peace congresses.

"Giving the prize to someone in the middle of a security conflict, and with a chance of boosting his or her influence, is a wise way to use the power of the Nobel," said Professor Janne Haaland Matlary from Oslo University.

Other leading candidates include Chinese and Russian dissidents, such as Hu Jia and Lidia Yusupova, but some experts say the Nobel Committee will not risk challenging a major power this year, just after two politicians joined the panel.

"A controversial prize that raises severe protests by powerful states or other powerful interests would draw attention to ... the independence of the committee," said Harpviken. (Editing by Louise Ireland)


The point was apparently to give a boost to someone whose attempts at promoting peace are still underway, rather than to award someone for activism that's already done.

I can buy that. Obama has shown that he at least considers the promotion of peace and the betterment of the global community to be important. He did vote against the Iraq war, he has improved US-international relations, he has worked to de-escalate nuclear tensions between the US and Russia, he has expressed willingness to talk with Iran and North Korea rather than making simplistic "do what I say or else" demands.

If the prestige of a Nobel Peace Prize can actually help continue his efforts towards nuclear nonproliferation and disarmament and the shift towards diplomacy rather than attempts to dominate other nations under the threat of military force, then it all sounds good to me.


Replies to this message:
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Lithodid-Man
Member (Idle past 1272 days)
Posts: 504
From: Juneau, Alaska, USA
Joined: 03-22-2004


Message 20 of 57 (529481)
10-09-2009 2:46 PM


Dreading the response....
I am just waiting for the response from the lunatic fringe regarding their predictions that Obama is the antichrist, especially since he has already dared to talk about peaceful settlement of the Israeli-Palestinian issue [sarcasm](unlike every other president in the last 50 years plus)[/sarcasm]

"he shall come in peaceably, and seize the kingdom by intrigue." (Daniel 11:21)


Doctor Bashir: "Of all the stories you told me, which were true and which weren't?"
Elim Garak: "My dear Doctor, they're all true"
Doctor Bashir: "Even the lies?"
Elim Garak: "Especially the lies"

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Izanagi
Member (Idle past 3557 days)
Posts: 263
Joined: 09-15-2009


Message 21 of 57 (529482)
10-09-2009 2:56 PM
Reply to: Message 19 by Rahvin
10-09-2009 2:42 PM


Re: The real reason Obama got the prize
Most analysts have agreed that was the main reason for Obama getting the prize. I think that while it is a nice sentiment, it defeats the purpose of the Nobel Peace Prize, which is to award achievements, not possible achievements. It would be as if they gave the Nobel Prize in Physics to a physicist for a brilliant idea but before that physicist performed the experiments that would show how their idea is supported by the data.

Obama has great potential to effect change for the better but it still remains to be seen whether he can or will, and awarding him the Nobel Peace Prize will only serve to heighten people's expectations of him. Even I think people are beginning to place too much emphasis on his ability to change the world are placing him on too high a pedestal.


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DevilsAdvocate
Member (Idle past 1442 days)
Posts: 1548
Joined: 06-05-2008


Message 22 of 57 (529485)
10-09-2009 3:18 PM
Reply to: Message 20 by Lithodid-Man
10-09-2009 2:46 PM


Re: Dreading the response....
Lithoidid writes:

I am just waiting for the response from the lunatic fringe regarding their predictions that Obama is the antichrist?

So is Obama, Nicholae Carpathia?


"You can't convince a believer of anything; for their belief is not based on evidence, it's based on a deep seated need to believe." - Carl Sagan

"It is far better to grasp the Universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring." - Carl Sagan, The Demon-Haunted World


This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
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riVeRraT
Member (Idle past 260 days)
Posts: 5746
From: NY USA
Joined: 05-09-2004


Message 23 of 57 (529487)
10-09-2009 3:20 PM
Reply to: Message 3 by Percy
10-09-2009 7:55 AM


I like Obama, a lot, but the Nobel Peace Prize? Give me a break! The Nobel committee just came down another notch in my eyes. Here's a YouTube video I found at Google News, they agree with me, so I must be right:

From the youtube video, Russian's have raised their eyebrows. Seems to be going around.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 3 by Percy, posted 10-09-2009 7:55 AM Percy has acknowledged this reply

  
riVeRraT
Member (Idle past 260 days)
Posts: 5746
From: NY USA
Joined: 05-09-2004


Message 24 of 57 (529493)
10-09-2009 3:42 PM


Obama is full of it....again
If Obama was a man of integrity, he would refuse the Peace Prize. Instead he is just full of smut. Honestly, his whole demeanor changed the day he got elected. Even his walk changed. How dare you Obama take such an award? I honestly hoped for better, so far I am not seeing it.

First Gore gets one for a slide show, now this? By far a huge joke. Yes we can....

Bush's Emergency plan for AIDS relief was a far greater accomplishment than the words of an unaccomplished leader. IMO Bush should have got an award for this.

quote:
The massive funding increases have made anti-retrovirals widely available, saving millions of lives.

From: http://en.wi.../President%27s_Emergency_Plan_for_AIDS_Relief

This has probably been a foundation for peace more than anything Obama has done, or pledged to do.

Obama kills a fly, get s a hand shake, and gets the award? Big freaking joke. Gore too, give me a break, there are far better people than those 2 baboons. Crap, Michael Jackson should have gotten one. He did more to bring this world together than anyone I can think of.

Not only that, I think the ballots for this prize were entered after Obama had only 12 days in office. You have big shoes to fill Obama, you better deliver, especially after accepting this award.
We'll be waiting patiently, you got 3 more years.


Replies to this message:
 Message 25 by Taz, posted 10-09-2009 4:24 PM riVeRraT has responded

  
Taz
Member (Idle past 1632 days)
Posts: 5069
From: Zerus
Joined: 07-18-2006


(2)
Message 25 of 57 (529501)
10-09-2009 4:24 PM
Reply to: Message 24 by riVeRraT
10-09-2009 3:42 PM


Re: Obama is full of it....again
First of all, I'd like to express my opinion that I honestly thought this was a prank pulled on us by the nobel peace prize committee. Too bad this is getting less and less likely to be a prank.

riverrat writes:

If Obama was a man of integrity, he would refuse the Peace Prize.


He's also a politician. If he refuses, the message the rest of the world will get is either "I'm too good for the nobel peace prize" or "the committee is stupid..." This is why nobody, and that's a big NOBODY, has ever refused a nobel peace prize. And likewise, nobody will ever refuse a nobel peace prize.

Reminds me of a Chinese story I once heard. A general came home from a victorious battle and was given the golden coat by the Emperor. Even though it was a victory, it was quite a small one and probably didn't deserve such an honor, so the general humbly refused the present. The Emperor ordered to have the general executed because how dare he refuse a present from the Emperor? Another general came home the following day from another victorious battle and again the Emperor offered him the golden coat. Hearing what happened with the other general, he humbly accepted the present. The Emperor also ordered to have this general executed because only an emperor could wear golden clothes.

Moral of the story: Obama is damned if he accepted the award and he's damned if he refused.

In his acceptance comment, he even said he felt "humbled and unworthy".

You are attacking Obama for something he did not do. He certainly did not nominate himself. He certainly did not advocate himself to be selected. The news came as a surprise to him as much as anyone else. If anything, I still think this is a prank pulled on us by the committee.

Again, get your head out of your ass, riverrat. I don't like this year's award anymore than you do. As I pointed out many times before, you're just looking for a reason to dislike Obama, no matter how ridiculous your reason is.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 24 by riVeRraT, posted 10-09-2009 3:42 PM riVeRraT has responded

Replies to this message:
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Taz
Member (Idle past 1632 days)
Posts: 5069
From: Zerus
Joined: 07-18-2006


Message 26 of 57 (529503)
10-09-2009 4:29 PM
Reply to: Message 22 by DevilsAdvocate
10-09-2009 3:18 PM


Re: Dreading the response....
DA writes:

So is Obama, Nicholae Carpathia?


Haven't you heard the news that they actually honest to god produced a birth certificate that says Obama was born in Italy?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 22 by DevilsAdvocate, posted 10-09-2009 3:18 PM DevilsAdvocate has responded

Replies to this message:
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slevesque
Member (Idle past 2981 days)
Posts: 1456
Joined: 05-14-2009


Message 27 of 57 (529510)
10-09-2009 5:19 PM


This makes no sense. We should start a petition demanding that the prize being given to some doctor out their in africa who's working 22h a day to heal people.

  
Straggler
Member
Posts: 10285
From: London England
Joined: 09-30-2006


(1)
Message 28 of 57 (529512)
10-09-2009 5:25 PM
Reply to: Message 19 by Rahvin
10-09-2009 2:42 PM


Re: The real reason Obama got the prize
I can buy that. Obama has shown that he at least considers the promotion of peace and the betterment of the global community to be important. He did vote against the Iraq war, he has improved US-international relations, he has worked to de-escalate nuclear tensions between the US and Russia, he has expressed willingness to talk with Iran and North Korea rather than making simplistic "do what I say or else" demands.

If the prestige of a Nobel Peace Prize can actually help continue his efforts towards nuclear nonproliferation and disarmament and the shift towards diplomacy rather than attempts to dominate other nations under the threat of military force, then it all sounds good to me.

Just been watching the news on this very issue. The commentator on the BBC suggested that: (and I paraphrase as I cannot recall the exact quote)

"Obama received this prize effectively for NOT being George Bush".

Which to me seems consistent, in so many words, with your conclusions above.


This message is a reply to:
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onifre
Member (Idle past 1292 days)
Posts: 4854
From: Dark Side of the Moon
Joined: 02-20-2008


Message 29 of 57 (529519)
10-09-2009 5:40 PM


What?!
I just heard on the news that Kanye West interrupted the Nobel ceremony to claim that he deserved the peace prize!

- Oni


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Hyroglyphx
Member
Posts: 5878
From: Austin, TX
Joined: 05-03-2006
Member Rating: 2.3


Message 30 of 57 (529542)
10-09-2009 6:12 PM
Reply to: Message 10 by caffeine
10-09-2009 11:06 AM


Re: Nobels and Nukes
I agree that he's a bad nomination, but how could the Nobel Peace Prize drop any lower in your estimation. It's long ago since the concept was stamped into the ground and urinated on. Look at some of the murderers, terrorists and warmogers who have one of these sat on their mantelpiece - Yasser Arafat and Henry Kissinger are two that spring immediately to mind.

An astute observation and a good point. It all sounds masturbatory anyway. Unless you win it like the physicists and doctors do, by, you know, actually accomplishing something of worth.

What's the major difference between Germany and France that means the Germans are incapable of maintaining a nuclear arsenal? What practical constraint limits Japan's capacity to do the same?

Aren't they bound by international treaty and armistice after WWII not to? Japan and Germany have been tied down for more than half a century due to their aspirations of world domination. Personally I think they've payed their debts to the world.


"Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passions, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence." --John Adams

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